Andrew Sampford

Welcome back for another episode of Welcome to Studio 2, in this amazing episode we meet Andrew Sampford. Andew is an extraordinary composer, musician and is also the current Musical Director and Production Manager at Options Theatre.  From touring with "John English in The Rock Show", to worrying about wireless mic packs shutting down to writing his own version of the classic John Farnham song "Playing To Win" so it could be played on International flights. Andrew has managed to carve out a career doing what he loves in the music industry. Oh and if you're under 30 and don't get a reference. ASK YOUR MUM

  Song Credits

Gone Under

Preformed by: Snarky Puppies, Shayna Steele                                                                  Written by: Shayna Steele, David Cook                                                                                Produced by:                                                                                                             Source: Ground Up                                                                                

welcome to Studio 2
https://www.instagram.com/welcometo_studio2?igsh=OXJyOGcxMTJveHhj&utm_source=qr

Andrew Sampford       https://www.instagram.com/loofa24?igsh=c2VsYzIyczR1NThx            

Options Theatre Company https://www.instagram.com/optionstheatrecompany?igsh=MTB3NGh6bHFoZGRxYQ==

Owen Butterworth
https://www.instagram.com/owenbutterworth?igsh=MTdvdm12ZXNydXlqbQ==

The Grove Studios    https://www.instagram.com/thegrovestudios?igsh=MWwzOTViMnEwN3d3bQ==        

Transcript

Jimmy 0:08

I'm Jimmy. Over there we have Owen and next to me today we have Andrew Stamford. Hello. Hi Andrew, how you going? Yeah, not bad. How are you? Good. Thanks for joining us today.

Andrew 0:17

Our pleasure.

Jimmy 0:18

So um Andrew is a musician and composer, correct? Correct. Who has well you've fingered a few pies in the music industry over the years, I dare say.

Andrew 0:26

I've just just filled so many pies with so many fingers.

Jimmy 0:31

So Bat the moment you're let's say how well how I met you and um and how I know you well is through your role as the musical director at Options Theatre.

Andrew 0:42

That's exactly right. Options Theatre Company. I'm the musical director and production manager there, um, which is really cool. They're a uh non-for-profit disability organization, and we basically put on shows with people with various intellectual and physical disabilities, uh which is really great. It's a it's a it's such a theatre's such a great outlet for people, and so it's it's really lovely to see the the different ways that different people approach that you know, that art form. People's brains work in all sorts of different ways, and it's it's I've I've actually learnt quite a lot working there in terms of how to how to approach teaching other people how to do theatre or music or or what have you. So it's a really cool job.

Jimmy 1:24

And inside options, um, it's not just performance-based, is it? I mean they do like they learn pretty much the entire process of putting on a show or yeah, yeah.

Andrew 1:33

So so the the we do a lot of behind the scenes stuff, so we we divide it into days, you know, Tuesday's dance day, Friday's the big big show day, Thursday's more targeted acting day, Monday we do all sorts of behind the scenes stuff, and Wednesdays are all purpose come and come and get involved, like the beginners beginners day. So there's there's there's all sorts of different things that we do there, and it's it's yeah, it's a really cool place to work.

Jimmy 1:57

Yeah. Um so we had uh Jason on a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about um working in an audio desk for theatre um and how it was you know much different to a rock band. Um do you guys touch on all that kind of stuff?

Andrew 2:09

Uh yeah, we we we do. We we're yet to sort of do that with any of the the sort of program participants, but we we do that. I actually worked at the Hayes Theatre for a while doing doing audio tech as well.

Jimmy 2:20

Yeah.

Andrew 2:20

So um I've had a a little bit ex bit of experience myself in twiddling knobs and pushing pushing faders and all that sort of malarkey.

Jimmy 2:29

It's just uh a series of volume knobs, is it not, for so I've been told. Yeah, or not.

Andrew 2:34

We'll go to that. Just just silently panicking about wireless mic packs. Yeah, it's yeah. That's that's I think uh and I think you'd agree. I think uh 90% of audio work is panicking about the wireless system.

Owen 2:46

Yeah, I mean that's why I work in a studio, because everything's wired. It's so great. Yeah.

Andrew 2:52

It's the the amount of times we've everything's been going beautifully and and just suddenly a mic goes down. And what do you do? At the Hays we didn't have any dedicated mic techs there either, so it was just panic stations. Somebody would have to go, a stage manager who had no idea what they were doing, would have to go down and do their very best. Turn it off and back on again. Absolute chaos. And I'm I'm super happy to be out of that game.

Jimmy 3:16

Uh so uh, you know, said you've um you've you've been around and w what other areas of the music industry have you worked in over the years?

Andrew 3:25

Uh well I'd I've done a lot of screen composition. Yep. Um so I've worked on uh couple of TV shows you might have heard of and a few that you probably haven't. Um that's screening at the moment called I Was Actually There, which is actually, I think the first episode of the new season is coming out tonight. Oh, cool. So tonight being Tuesday, I don't want to date your episode for you. That's fine. We've dated a few times ourselves already, I think. There we go. Whatever the date is, the 7th of whatever month we're in, October. Here we are. Hello everyone, I know where I am and what I'm doing. Um so that's I Was Actually There, which is just a uh documentary series for the ABC that that basically features first hand accounts of you know famous events from history.

Jimmy 4:03

Okay, yeah.

Andrew 4:04

Uh, which is a really great, really great show. You should watch it, yeah, check it out. I did the music for it. Um and the most famous one being uh uh You Can't Ask That, which is uh we've had about seven seasons of that, and I was I was there from about season two on You Can't Ask That.

Jimmy 4:20

Yeah. I remember that's um I was sitting there watching it one day, and um at the annual name just popped up and I'm like, yeah, I know that guy. It's me. Hi that's that guy.

Andrew 4:29

But I've also worked on a bunch of shows that you probably haven't heard of. There was an old comedy series for uh I can't even remember which network it was for. 10? I don't know, called Plonk with uh uh which was basically a uh show about people touring wineries. I can't remember most of it, yeah, but um that was a great show. I actually uh you'll never hear it. There's a song that I a song that I wrote for it. This is j I'm just gonna launch into a an a story if you'll if you'll allow me. They had uh John Farnum's Playing to Win as one of the songs in the show, and it was a really great moment uh in the show, and they went to license it for you know Qantas bought it, which is a really weird thing. Quantas purchased this this show. They purchased the show to play as part of their in-flight entertainment, yeah. Um, and then they found out that they didn't have the rights, they didn't have international rights for playing to win, and Qantas, the Qantas version technically counted as an international performance because it was going on international flights, so they'd be they'd be not in Australia while it aired. So I had to write a parody version of playing to win, like write and record a the parody version of um playing to win in about 45 minutes because they needed it to sort of ace up. And it's it's it's one of the silliest things I think I've ever written. I'll send it to you at some point.

Jimmy 6:00

Please, please do. Is it the silliest thing you're proud of or the silliest things?

Andrew 6:04

Yeah, no, I'm really proud of it. It's a it's a it's a banger of a tune. You can hear you can hear distinctly, it needed to be in time with playing to win because the they'd edited to the beats. So it's it's it's unashamedly a playing to win knockoff with the with the trumpet hits exactly as they should be. But yeah, it was it was uh it was a fun, fun little little thing to to put together.

Owen 6:26

And as that was for Plonk.

Andrew 6:27

That was for Plonk.

Owen 6:28

Yeah, did you make it vineyard vineyard themed parody?

Andrew 6:32

Uh it's no, it's not it's not vineyard themed. I I think that I I'm really this is probably about 15 years ago now, so I'm really having to stretch back my um my memory. I'm pretty sure the song was called Be the Man. Nice. So instead of playing to win, you're gonna, you know, really man up and be the man. For sure. Which is how I uh often speak to people. That's it's really I really lean into performative masculinity. Um no, so it's uh it's a yeah, it's a it's a it's a really fun, fun moment in the show, and I think I this is very egotistical, but I think I slightly prefer my version to John Farnum. I know I'm calling it here, I'm better than John Farnum. Um and you can quote me on that.

Owen 7:19

Yeah, in the in the context of being on a Qantas flight as well, it's fucking taking Johnny Farnum on taking the ball by the horns. That's it.

Andrew 7:26

It's just just specifically when it comes to to quantus in flight entertainment, I think I've got I've got Johnny Farnum pegged.

Jimmy 7:33

You got him pegged, nice. So, how'd you fall into uh writing for TV shows and films and whatnot?

Andrew 7:40

So let's um have you got like a little harp sample? Yeah, for sure. Trip back through memory. Trip and trip back through two stars back through memory lane. Um I I one of my uh earliest memories, and it's actually I was probably old, which is probably a terrible reflection on my memory. I think I was I think I was eight or seven or something, but um I remember going along with my mother to like a school band concert. I think my sister was playing flute in the school band. Uh, and I looked at one of the kids playing clarinet, and I was like, that kid's cool. Don't don't laugh, don't mock me there. Just the clarinet specifically is pretty cool. To any to any clarinet players out there listening in, don't let that be a reflection on you. That's you're cool. You are. I think you're cool.

Owen 8:32

Yeah, that's do you also have an affinity for um Squidward from SpongeBob then? He's a big clarinet.

Andrew 8:38

I didn't know that. I did well, I do now.

Owen 8:40

Yeah, he's a next time you watch an episode of Spongebob, keep your eye out.

Andrew 8:44

Oh well, I'm I'm gonna have to I'll have to watch my first episode of SpongeBob, but I'll I'll get in there. If there's some clarinet featured, count me in. Um but yeah, so I went along to this concert and I saw the clarinet player and I was like, that kid's cool. That guy's cool, and I I want to be I want to be that guy in the in the concert band. Gosford concert band or whatever it was. Very cool. Um so I mum bought me a secondhand clarinet for for Christmas off my birthday, and I I started taking lessons and soon realized that I wasn't a clarinet player. I still can play it, but not not particularly well. Uh and then I switched over to piano. My mum's a pianist and has always been a pianist. Um she's very good, much better at sight reading than I am. Uh, and dad's a guitarist, uh, and and I think the piano kind of appealed to me. It's gonna sound very silly, but just being able to do lots of different notes at once. I think I I I like chords, yeah. I like harmony, and and that that's always been a bit of a draw to me. So I I I switched over to piano and and kind of never looked back. Picked up a bit of guitar in in dad's honour as well, but I'm a a mediocre guitarist at best. I I uh uh Jack of all trades, master at master of none. I try and play a bunch of different instruments moderately well and usually fail. But um piano piano really stuck with me. So that's that's been the the instrument that I've kind of carried forward with my with my writing, and it's where I start whenever I'm writing something, I'll start with a piano and map out what I'm doing and then orchestrate or synthestrate or whatever, whatever you you would have.

Jimmy 10:25

Substrate it if you need to.

Andrew 10:26

Substrate. But anyway, that that that passion sort of caught on very early, and and I I always was a big fan of film scores as well. Like all of your classic film scores. I've I've got a vinyl copy of the ET soundtrack, beautiful soundtrack, all the classic John Williams and and what have you. And I I grew up listening to a lot of classical music, so all of your Hulsts, and you know, you listen to Hulst and then you watch Star Wars and you're like, oh yeah, it's the music that's doing all the work here. You take the music away, and this is just a bunch of people on a cheap set, yeah, doing their best. Um and I I I I like that, and I think I think uh a part of its ego, if I'm being perfectly honest about it, is is I like I like behind the scenes work and I like I like the recognition of like I just sort of push that over the line. There we go. So I I I like film scoring as a the music makes it kind of deal. The music's like the the final touch that that makes something what it is, and I think that always appealed to me. So yeah, I I started started film scoring just for uh a friend of mine, and I'll I'll I'll name him Nick McDougal, um, who none of you probably know. It's a name that means nothing to you, uh, but he'll come up later. Hold that name. So I started we started making just really bad short films and entering short film festivals, and they were terrible. Some of them were alright, but but you know, we're a bunch of kids going out and making movies and trying to trying to be Spielberg and falling short by a few kilometers. Um but uh it was fun. We had a lot of fun doing it, and then we started entering sort of film festivals and what have you, and and we won a couple of film festivals, you know. Our films were the considered best in a in a field of you know, these are local, so Newcastle. There was one called I've forgotten the name of it. The shootout. It was the the idea was you made a film in 24 hours. Uh and so we did that and we stayed up for 24 hours and made a movie as quickly as we could. Um the film was called Tranquility, I remember that. Uh and yeah, we ended up winning that one, um, which was great. And it's and just sort of that passion just grew and grew as I as I kept making films with my mates, effectively. Uh then Nick McDougal, who again is the the name that we must remember, uh wound up getting picked up, he auditioned for and wound up getting picked up for Andrew Denton's Hungry Beast. Yep. Does everyone remember that show? So he was one of the people that got picked up for Hungry Beast. Uh and he's gone on to be a very, very successful editor, so he edits a lot of the shows that you'd be watching on TV. Uh and he just dropped my name one day as they were looking for someone to write some music, and this was for Plonk. Um the director of that, Nathan Earl, was looking for someone to to write some original music for it, and Nick said, Oh well, I've worked with this guy for four. He's never done anything, but he won the Newcastle shootout for what that's worth. Sign him up. Sign him up. They they they took a took a gamble on me, and and yeah, since then I um Yeah, I've picked up just job after job. I've never really hunted hunted for them, but I just found myself getting a phone call and oh hey, we're just looking for someone to do some music for this, and your name came up. And that's that's sort of how I fell into film scoring. Um but in amongst all of that, this is a waffly story. It's gonna keep going. Fantastic. Um in amongst all of that, I sort of had a had a bit of a down period. This all kind of happened in my mid to late 20s. So I finished up at school and I went to a performing arts high school, went to Newtown High School of the Performing Arts, and really had a lot of ambitions and and I was kind of a bit no good at school.

Jimmy 14:29

Okay.

Andrew 14:29

I was uh very good at the exams, did really well at the exams, absolutely hopeless at getting assessment tasks in on time. Was a real real motivation problem for me. So I managed to to scrape through the HSC on my talent alone. On my uh on my exam marks. Uh and and honestly, because I had a really good music teacher, and you know, we're calling people out. Chris Howes was my music teacher, and he sneakily fudged a lot of my application dates for my assessment tasks for the HSC, which not all of my teachers did, but he he uh uh really looked after me. He he sort of said, Look, you didn't get this on time.

Jimmy 15:11

But it's done.

Andrew 15:12

So get it done. I'm gonna pretend that you did get it on time, but but you need to you need to get it done. So he he really looked after me in that regard, and and um yeah, he he's uh he's another one of the reasons that I I think I wound up really doing music as a career because he because he looked after me and my passion for for music under him grew, like having such a great teacher who was willing to take a couple of risks and lie about when I got all my assessment tasks in.

Jimmy 15:44

Do you do that Owen? Do you let people off on assessment tasks if they're needed? Uh I don't have that power. You don't have that power though?

Owen 15:50

Yeah, that's not up to me. But I I had a music teacher who was uh important in my career pathway as well. Yeah, Damien Clift was his name, and he was great. He was uh he studied audio engineering before he became a music teacher, and he was like, You should go and study audio engineering, and I was like, Yeah, I think you're right, and uh it was he was fucking great. Yeah, he was definitely instrumental in my career path, I'd say for sure.

Andrew 16:15

Nice use of instrumental. Thanks.

Owen 16:17

That's really good.

Jimmy 16:20

So when you when you left Newtown performing heart school, did you have dreams of being a big rock and roll star? Or were you always moving towards maybe the engineering side of music?

Andrew 16:30

So I'm a nerd. I uh like I I grew up doing amateur theatre. Like I'm you know productions of Oklahoma, where I played Jod Fra and all that sort of cool thing, and uh that's a really cool character that I'm doing, and blah blah blah. Yeah, so I I I I don't think I ever had any rock star ambitions, but excellent segue into where I was about to go with uh with the grand old story of my musical life. Uh I left school, Newtown, and and because I didn't get a particularly good HSC result, I th I think I scraped by again, thanks to the the kindness of uh Mr. Chris Howes. Uh just managed to scrape by and uh and uh get a passing mark, but but no university'd have me. No university'd have me. So so I just kind of moved back, you know, home. I was I was living briefly in Sydney while I went to school at Newtown. And I moved back home and just lived with my parents for a couple of years, like all cool people do. Um and again, grateful that I have wonderful parents who were willing to take me back and let me sort of figure out mooch. Let's call it mooching. Really mooch mooch off of their kindness. Uh and I think they were just waiting for me to announce that I was gonna go and get a real job, but I still had this kind of musical ambition. Uh, and through this time I was still doing sort of these amateur performances uh uh at the local theatre society, Gosford Musical Society. And so I I met a lot of people doing that. Um but one person who I met who again will come up, and you know this person, uh, was Stuart Smith. Uh and he and this is sort of my last year of school or second last year of school, he was doing a production called Paris with John English. Uh for those of you who don't know John English, he's um unfortunately past now, but he's uh at the time we were doing this production of Paris was an aged rocker, was sort of the original Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar in Australia and has a whole bunch of hits and I remember John English for sure, yeah.

Jimmy 18:39

But some of the some of the young kids listening may not.

Andrew 18:41

Yeah, so uh ask your mum who John English is. Um John English is old black eyes. Um but so Stu was working on this production of Paris, and I I I sort of met him and sort of developed a little little bit of a friendship, but you know, I I was a bit younger than him, so so I was just like the I think at the time like the 17-year-old being like, Oh hi Stu, will you be my friend? And he was like, Who the fuck are you? Like, piss off. Um But I went along and auditioned and and got into this show as just an ensemble member of the the first run that they did of Paris, and um uh which I should say was being directed by Daryl Kirkness, not Stuart, but but Stu's the Stew's the main folks of the story. Uh and then years later, so this is when I'm out of school and mooching off my parents, they decide to do another production of Paris, they decide to do it again. Uh and David Spicer, who owns the rights of the show, wanted to produce a production with John English in it this time. So the original one we did was just uh it was the world premiere of Paris, but it was just a bunch of us Gosfordians, whatever as we would call ourselves. Um whereas this version had John, John was gonna come and play Menelaus in his own musical, uh his own opera, I should say, rock opera, and so that was exciting. And Stu asked me to come and do it again. I'm like, absolutely great. Uh and I wound up underscoring John in that production. So I it during rehearsals I was playing his part, and then he just turned up at the end and slotted himself into the show. Uh took all the glory, took all the glory, and and I never got to play the role on stage, and I played the role, the much coveted role of the fisherman. Fuck yeah, everyone loves the fisherman, everyone loves the fisherman, yeah. He's the guy that finds if you know your Greek mythology, finds Paris washed ashore, and then he's like, well, on you go. Big role. Um so anyway, uh, I I played the role of the fisherman. I've got a beautiful song, so I'm not I can't complain too much, but I will. Uh but so we sort of met John and we also met uh a young guy who I'd met a few times called Isaac Hayward, who is a very talented musician who is now working, he's living in New York, and he's a Broadway musical director and works with has done work for Lynn Monwell and Miranda, and he's he's gone on to be incredibly successful, very talented guy, very good friend of mine. And we met him there as well. Uh so we're doing this production of Paris, and during it, Stu has met Isaac and just sees that he's this like prodigious musician, and we all start to say, like, what can we do? What can we do with the collection of us? And we we have a few other people we know. You'd uh uh let's drop some names. Do you know Paul? You'd know Paul Toole.

Owen 21:45

I know Paul Toole.

Andrew 21:46

You know Paul Toole. He's a he's a local local musician, so he was his daughter's in Little Quirks. Little quirks, who have gone on to be huge. Um so Paul was one of our friends we knew. Uh we knew Isaac knew uh uh Women called Natalia Bing and Tulera Webster and Sean Tarring, all of these wonderful people that we had, all these wonderful musicians, who you've all probably never heard of, because again, ask your mum. But so we we knew all these people and we said, what can we do? And it's the idea sort of started as sell out the musical. You know, let's let's give the people what they want. What do people want? Baby boomers want to listen to 70s and 60s and 70s rock music. And the idea was that we'd attach John, because we knew John now, and we, you know, we knew John English, and he's a name, so we'd attach him, and all he had to do was we'd wheel him out and he'd do a bit of narration, and then we'd go and play these rock songs for everyone. Uh, and at the same time, uh a guy called Patrick Corrigan, who again has also passed, unfortunately now, was opening the Naura, the new Naura Entertainment Centre.

Jimmy 22:58

Yep.

Andrew 22:58

Um, I can't remember if it's actually an entertainment centre, but it's uh this this beautiful theatre in in Naura. And he was the manager of it, and he said, We need you to do something for our opening. Can you guys come and do some kind of performance? And we said, Yeah, sure. Um, so we put together this rock show, which was a very theatrical sort of journey through the classics of the 60s and 70s, and we pitched it to John and said, Hey, would you like to be in it? And his response was, Yeah, I'll be in it, but I don't want to just do these narration bits, I want to come and sing and be part of it. And so that's how the show was launched, and uh the that first opening it now was so successful, we ended up just sort of touring it around the country for I was with it for the next five years of my life.

Jimmy 23:39

Oh wow.

Andrew 23:40

So which was great, and that's a show that we all created. Stu and Isaac were kind of the director and musical director, but we all we all got to sort of create this thing and then tour it around with John, who was a fantastic guy, like absolute legend, who who sort of gave us that opportunity as well. So uh I was really lucky in that regard. Um, and I met a lot of really wonderful people sort of doing it who I'm still in touch with. Um Amy V, a very talented I know who that is. Amy V, a very talented musician from um Newcastle, wasn't in the original cast, but she joined us sort of a couple of years in. And I've I've I gig with her still to this day, sometimes I you know, I'll I don't gig very much these days, but I'll I'll turn up and and sort of play a play a song or two with her. Um But yeah, we really lucked into it. It was right place, right time, right people. Absolute, absolute luck. But I will say touring with John English was the turning point where my parents finally stopped wondering when I was gonna get a real job. Because my my parents would play John English Records when I was growing up, so I was like, Oh yeah, just just touring with this. I know, yeah, another music gig. When are you gonna be an accountant? And I'm like, oh no, it's John English, and they're like, Oh great, we'll we'll support that. And so I had these two things running at the sort of sort of same time. I had had your scoring work running, I had the rock show touring, and I wasn't making very much money as musicians tend not to, unfortunately. Yep, and then while I was doing that, uh Stu had been working at options, so he'd been working there for for years, um, just working on their end-of-year show, because he's uh sort of known on the coast as a fairly good director, and they they would have him come in and help them with their end-of-year shows. Uh and so he wound up getting a job there. Uh, and then the guy who was running they had a program which was just a sort of radio podcast-esque program, um quit on the spot and decided not to come into work. And I get a call from Stu saying, Hey, you know how to use microphones and consoles and you know, audio interfaces and all that malarkey. I'm like, Yeah, I know how to do all that sort of stuff. Can you come and take over? Take over, just run this program for a day. And so I came in and ran a program for a day, and I was really good at it. And since then I've wound up becoming yeah, musical director, production manager. That that's just gone on, and it's it's it's a it's a great source of income that is a very rare thing for for people, you know, it's a really great arts job. Yeah, because there's not a lot of good paying arts jobs out there, and I again uh I I attribute a lot of it to just dumb luck.

Jimmy 26:30

Knowing the right people as well.

Andrew 26:31

Knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time. I've never done a job interview in my life. I've never done a single job interview.

Jimmy 26:37

I don't think I have either, you know, as even as a tradie web very much like that. You just I know this guy, he needs work, and you turn up, you do a week, and you're there forever. That's exactly right.

Andrew 26:45

And and and one of the sort of sad things about the music industry is that that's a lot of how it works. Like it's it really is about getting out there and being in the right place at the right time. Um, you can have all the education in the world, and I will say, and I'm I'm I'm very pro-education, yeah. I'm very pro-educci. I'm not I'm not gonna down talk it. I think education, the biggest benefit is not actually what you learn, it's who you meet while you're doing it. Because they're your con they're your contacts that you'll take away. Yeah, 100%.

Jimmy 27:17

No, I get that.

Andrew 27:18

And so I I will I will say that my education probably took place in the amateur musical theatre scene of Gosford, which uh in terms of the knowledge you gain is probably one of the worst educations you can get, but in terms of the people that I've got to meet to meet and was lucky to be meeting. Yeah, if I'd come through three years later, those same people wouldn't have been there. So uh it's it's dumb luck. And perseverance, I've worked as well. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna diminish my work and I've I've I learned how to play piano and I learnt how to play guitar and I've worked really hard at those skills. But you combine a a a solid skill base with dumb luck, and that's that's that's your music industry for you.

Owen 28:02

I also think like dumb luck, skill, but then especially in the music industry, being like a normal fucking human being is also a like a skill set to have because so many people are either arseholes or can't have a conversation with you because they're so up their own ass that it just like I've met heaps of people who are totally talented and they're in bands, but I never want to work with their band again because they're the worst people in the world.

Andrew 28:28

That is that is a hundred percent true, and it's the you heard of the three T's? Uh no. I can't remember what one of them is, so it's a it's a terrible rendition.

Jimmy 28:39

We were hoping he knew the answer, right?

Andrew 28:41

No, I remember what they all are. It's it's talent is the first one. Talent is something that you absolutely need in the music industry. The second one is training. You need to train. You can be the most talented person in the world, but you need to you need to work, you need to practice your art. Otherwise, it'll get stale. I I actually, small tangent, I'll get to the third T in a second. Really big on my tangents when I love it.

Owen 29:05

That's actually the third T, it's a surprise T. Tangent.

Andrew 29:08

The third T is tangent. Well done. Um so I knew, and I won't name these people, but I knew two really talented opera singers when they were young. Um, they were they were sort of 12-year-old, 13-year-old, but had these beautiful operatic voices. Uh, and they were as talented as each other, and one of those two um got in her own head about how talented she was and was like, I'm I'm winning a Stadfords, I'm doing all this sort of stuff. I'm the I'm the top dog, I don't need to do anything. And she's not singing anymore. She doesn't sing. She she now has a very respectable job. I just couldn't even tell you what it is. Uh the other one of those uh young girls at the time uh is uh about to go to Germany to sing opera professionally with a with a German company. Uh and the difference is is that she detached that sort of ego. She was like, I'm really, really good, but I want to be better. I want to be better. I want to be as good as I can be.

Jimmy 30:21

While we're going on tendency, I have a little theory on perfectionism. A lot of people talk about perfectionism and I'm a perfectionist and whatnot. And in my head, I don't really think you can achieve perfectionism. Because for me, if you want to be perfect and you achieve something as best as you can, do it a hundred times and you'll be better again, right? So you can always strive for perfectionism, but I don't think you ever really reach that level ever.

Andrew 30:44

No, you will you can you can never stop learning. Yeah, perfection perfectionism's a funny one. It's it's you can always aim for perfect, and you should always aim for perfect, but you will never ever achieve perfect because there's always something that could be different or better or what have you. It's you'll you'll never you'll never get there. Uh I will briefly go back to the third T though. Fantastic. It wasn't tangent.

Owen 31:11

Can we recap on the first two? Talent.

Andrew 31:14

We're that far removed. It's been another 40 minutes, so we need to really, really re-readdress what the uh first two T's were. So it's talent, training, two important. The third one is temperament. And it's it's it really m hits on what you were saying about you can be the most talented person in the room. If you're a dickhead, nobody's gonna work with you. If you oh let me let me let me let me tell another story. Can I go into another story?

Jimmy 31:45

Well, it's a podcast, it's all about stories.

Andrew 31:47

Welcome to Storytime with Andrew Sanford.

Owen 31:50

There's another harp sample there.

Andrew 31:51

Yeah, give me the n give me that harp. Give me that damn harp. Um so this is when I was working as an audio tech, uh, and I was I was also musical musical director for a show at the same time. Uh, and for the show that I was musical director on, I was in a production meeting with a whole bunch of people, and everyone was there were a few things going wrong, and everyone was blaming everyone else, and there were a lot of just sort of egos, myself one of them, just snapping at each other across a room. And nobody was really working together. We were trying to get everything back on track, but nobody was really working together, and it was a it was like a three and a half hour long production meeting of just of just people going, Well, you didn't do this, well you didn't do this, and it was a uh just felt like such a waste of my time. Uh at the time I was also the consulting sound supervisor for a show at The Hayes called The Sideshow. Uh, and I had to leave that production meeting early to drive down, drive down there and and get that all done. So I left and I'm in the car, and this is from Gosford to Sydney, so I'm in the car fuming. I'm like bloody idiots, you know. Fucking this, fucking that. And then I get there and we're in tech rehearsal, final tech rehearsal for this show. And this is a real story about temperament. The whole sound system completely shut itself down. Jesus Christ. Crashed, and we got this noise. And I do apologize. Hopefully, you can fix this in post through the speakers as loud as you could possibly could possibly hear. We got this.

Owen 33:39

You do that really well. Thank you. You do that really well.

Andrew 33:44

Um and it's it's these theatre systems, it's a very complicated rig, you know. You you you've got your console, which is running into your correction, which is running into your room EQ, which is running into your speakers, like multiple speakers, there's cables everywhere, you've got your wireless packs, you've got like so much is going on. Uh, and this is final tech. So the this is the time to start turning around and being like, Well, you didn't do your fucking job and this and that. And the director, who is a wonderful guy called Rich Richard Carroll, uh, who is now the artistic director at the Hayes Theatre with Victoria Falconer, he calmly turns around to me. And this is this is full stress, full stress moment. He turns around to me and said very sternly, he was like, What what the hell just happened? And my response to him was I don't know. If you give me 15 minutes, um I'll figure it out and we'll be back up and running. Which was my best guess as to how long it would take me to try and find where the problem was. Yeah. And uh it just really struck me as a stark contrast to the meeting I'd just been in. He turns around and says to the cast, Cast, take a 20-minute break, go refresh yourselves, we'll be back, we'll be back here in 20 minutes to to pick up. And then he just turns around to me and says, Is it going to affect you if I keep teching lights while you do this?

Owen 35:12

Yeah.

Andrew 35:13

And I went, no. And then 10 minutes later I'd solve the problem. The cast had a 20-minute break, and they were refreshed, and we finished the tech. Like we finished the run. And it was it was such a contrast in my brain of of these people yelling at each other across a table to something very serious going wrong at a pivotal moment, and just everyone respecting each other, and just just nobody throwing their ego around and nobody yelling and nobody screaming. It was just a hey, this is this happens, stuff goes wrong, stuff goes wrong in live theatre all the time. I've I've had to shut down a codsole midway through a show, and I got away with it too. The audience didn't even notice, but um you have to reboot it or something. I had to reboot it. Yeah, so uh I wasn't uh it's another story. I wasn't I wasn't running the sound for the show, uh, but another person was running, it was for production of Rent, another person was running the console. Uh and she was an inexperienced mixer.

Owen 36:15

It's my favourite musical, by the way.

Andrew 36:16

Really? Yeah, it's one of my least favourite musicals.

Jimmy 36:20

I thought you two were gonna be friends with the colour. We'd have a fight in the car. We'd have a fight in the car park after this one. If it was Lamez, maybe, but nothing.

Andrew 36:35

We'll have a different fight about Lamez. Um, but no, so so we're we're at this um we've got an inexperienced mixer, um, and I I did the first season of Rent for them at The Hays, so I was there to just kind of help out. And it was opening night, was the first night of the show, but the sound designer um didn't quite trust all of the decisions she was making, and she's gone on to be fantastic, but this was when she was sort of very early and very inexperienced, so he was sending signals he was mixing on an iPad because that console lets you make little changes with an iPad, and all of a sudden I just my spidey sensors tingle because I know the cues pretty well, they're my cues that I've programmed in from the last time they did it, and I'm like, something's wrong here. My spidey sensors tingle. So I just I'm sitting in the audience, so I just sort of stand up and make my way to the back, and I'm like, what the what's happening? And she's like, I can't do anything. And this is a terrible design. Uh it was a Soundcraft SI Expression 3, was the console we were working on. Sure. Uh and mechanical faders, yeah. And buttons. Yep. And none of them were working. You would move a fader, it wouldn't affect the sound, and then it would just snap back to where it was. The buttons weren't letting you change scenes. Nothing was working. The complete the console was completely locking her out. Uh, and we were at the start of if you're familiar with Rent, um a little bit, I don't know. I'll I'll I'll it's the song, the song I'll cover you, but it it just starts with just a guitar. Like at a a guitar from on stage, and they've just got the mics. Uh so they've just got two two mics on stage and the guitar, and we hadn't gone to those new mics. Fortunately, the cast were professional, so they weren't speaking backstage, but some of them had their mics on. We couldn't we couldn't change the scene. And we're like, this is not this is not good. We can't, we're locked out. And so I turned to her and I I just I'm just like, we shouldn't do this, but worst case we have to do a show stop, and we'll just say something went wrong, and then I just flick the power button off for the whole sound system. And we heard a little through the speakers, and then I flicked the waited five seconds, flicked the power back on for the sound system. This is all during the intro. Then there's the boot up period.

Owen 39:09

And that doesn't mean it sounded like the Halo theme.

Andrew 39:12

They're doing they're doing their dialogue, and I'm like, watching this progress ball, like fuck it, come on, hurry up, hurry up, hurry up. And then just as we're about to get into the song, the system comes back online, and I quickly switch it over to the to the correct the correct cue. Because luckily, again, we've got the script in front of us, so I can just be like that cue, go, and then live in my house, I'll be your shelter. We get it up in time, and it's the most I've ever felt like James Bond in my life. Like it's that that progress bar. Um, it turns out what had happened is because the sound designer was sending signals to the iPad, the network went down while he was sending a signal. So the console had never received the uh There's a really exciting console talk for all you listeners, by the way, at home. Uh the console had never received the end of that signal, so it was waiting to receive the end of the signal that was being sent before it would release control back to the operator, which hey Soundcraft, if you're listening, which I assume you're not, being a British company, never ever lock a lock a person out of using the console. The person at the desk takes priority, the iPad cannot take priority. Do not let the iPads win.

Owen 40:24

Um the clankers, there's a word for that now. There's a new slang word. Yeah, clankers. Clankers. Yeah, it's like when AI starts to take over and uh things are controlled by robots, then those things are clankers. That's I believed how it's I believe how it's used. It's a new word. I'm ex I'm not experimenting with it, it's a Gen Z.

Andrew 40:43

You sound cool saying it.

Owen 40:44

Thanks. It means a lot.

Andrew 40:47

Um but yeah, I've and I've completely lost my train of thought as to where I was in my musical history, but there's another exciting story from grandpa's vault.

Jimmy 40:57

Well, instead of talking about your musical history, what let's talk about your musical fit future. I know um you have a new a new little what would you call it? Uh is it a hobby? Is it a project? Um your own little musical society? What what's going on there?

Andrew 41:12

Well, well, let's bloody launch into that. Here we go. Uh my wife, who is the lovely Ruth Tiffin, and she's a fantastic theatre person herself. Uh she works in theatre merchandising. She works for a company called Playbill, which if you've ever been to a show just a little company called Playbill.

Owen 41:30

Well, not the Playbill you're thinking.

Andrew 41:32

So you're thinking Playbill in America.

Owen 41:33

Yeah, I'm thinking Playbill.

Andrew 41:35

Whereas this is confusingly, this is Playbill in Australia, who are in America platypus.

Owen 41:41

Uh so not the shoes. Not shoes. Not a shoe shop.

Andrew 41:44

Not the shoes. Playbill in America um is a is a different company. Uh, but they basically every show that you've seen in Australia, I shouldn't say every, because they do have competitors, but certainly all the main ones you've seen, they do the merchandising, so they make the programs and the novelty cups and what have you. So she she does a lot of theatre work, she's got a lot of contacts. Uh and she recently decided that she wanted to start sort of producing shows. There's a bit of a bit of a gap in the market on the Central Coast. Uh we've got our Amateur Theatre Society, and shout out to JMS and God bless JMS. God bless them. They're doing a good job. They're they they put on shows, and it's a great place for like I've got a son, Charlie, and I'll be sending him there to do shows. It's a great place to learn your craft. Um but if you want to do anything professionally as a as a sort of theatre musician on the central coast, you go to Sydney or you go to Newcastle, or you there's so we were sort of looking, and there's a there's a bit of a gap in the market. Uh, and so she decided, and this is this is years back now. I couldn't tell you the exact years, but we're talking pre pre-COVID times that we were going to start just doing sort of semi-professional cabarets and shows where we tried to try our best to pay people. We don't always succeed. But um we try and do things as a sort of a profit share to get a lot of the talented people who are sort of on the Central Coast to stay. To not to stay. Uh there's there's there's a lot of people who have, you know, gone on to be teachers and psychologists and accountants and all all that whatnot, who are really talented theatre performers, but they don't want to move to Sydney to pursue their art because that lifestyle is not for everyone.

Jimmy 43:34

Yep.

Andrew 43:35

And they don't want to be in the sort of amateur musical society. That's not something that appeals to them. So it's kind of a bit of a a little sort of halfway point for them to get them to they can keep their job, they can live on the central coast and be happy, but they can also, you know, make make a bit of money performing and and sort of work in these semi professional things. So so she's done. And I've you know I've I've helped and give myself some credit, but she's put on a bunch of shows. So uh they started we've put on a whole bunch of cabarets, which uh we've done at various places. We did some at Laycock Street Theatre, we've done some at the Art House, we've done some at um Musicians Making a Difference in uh Gossford. Uh so we've we've we've done a a a fair share of cabarets and they're they're always good. They're just sort of small shows that you know you you don't charge much for your audience and you just get people in, have a sing and move on. Um but we've started sort of branching out into doing more sort of large-scale theatre, which which is where it gets really hard to s to pay people. So we haven't had a successful show where we've managed to to pay all of our cast yet, so people are volunteering their time still. But um we're working towards it, so we're we're we're we're building up and we we really do want to try and create this sort of semi-professional space, not paying all of your union rates and what have you, but but just like you know, people get compensated for their time. Uh so she put on a production of Into the Woods in the Don Craig Room at Laycock, uh, which was very successful, sold out and really good. And I'm not actually a big fan of the show, but I went along and watched it and I was like, yeah, this is good. This is great. Uh and she has done a production of The Phantom of the Opera.

Jimmy 45:28

Nice. I was lucky enough to see that one, which was absolutely amazing.

Andrew 45:31

That was a that was a really good one. That was directed directed by Stuart Smith as well. Yeah, help wire up the chandelier. Set designer, which was yeah, professional, professional set designer that you are. I I built the structure for the chandelier, professional set designer that I am. Absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

Owen 45:48

Put up your resumes, fellas.

Andrew 45:50

Yeah, we've we've we're we're starting a company after this podcast. Fantastic. Yeah, so if you have any sets that you need designed at any point, just only chandeliers, funny enough, so that actually works really well.

Owen 45:58

Have we got news for you?

Jimmy 46:00

We've done one.

Andrew 46:02

Um we've also just just recently uh a chorus line at Lakehawk Street Theatre, uh, which was was really, really successful actually. So and it's nice, it's it's nice for me because I I actually haven't been super I was really involved in Phantom. I haven't been super involved in a lot of these shows. I feel like there was another one that I'm forgetting. Terrible Husband. What's the what's the other show? Heathers that Ruth directed at the art house. My brain just lost it for a second. So a production of Heathers at the Art House as well. So we've we've done we've done a number of successful shows now. Uh and Tick Tick Boom, that Ruth heaps of shows.

Jimmy 46:44

Heaps of shows.

Andrew 46:44

I've forgotten the art house. For some reason I've forgotten the art house ones. Uh which I shouldn't because the other thing I'm going to segue into is we've actually been writing a show as well, a song cycle, that is going to be on in October.

Jimmy 46:59

Which is now a year ago or so yesterday.

Andrew 47:01

It may very well be. Uh so when I was uh when I was coming up and doing all these sort of theatre when I was younger, uh I used to make a habit, the JMS Gossip Musical Society do a do a performance night for everything where you can go and do whatever. And nerd that I am, I would always go and write a song for what I thought was the least interesting character of the show. So like the policeman that I I did one for the policeman that hands him the umbrella in singing in the rain.

Owen 47:33

Yep, nice.

Andrew 47:34

You know, what's what's his story? He's just like stuck outside and he gives away his umbrella, like he's just so depressed that he's like, I don't even need to be in the rain, just yeah, whatever, let the rain pour. Um or like Gladhand from West Side Story, who nobody would know who I'm talking about, but he's the guy that organises the dance at the gym, and all of the jets and the sharks are just like, nah, fuck your dance, and he just gets sad and leaves. And I'm like, what's his story? Uh so no. He doesn't sound very glad. He's not. Um so the anti-protagonist. Well, sort of, but I it's it's the the kind of thesis for the show is that everyone does have a story to tell, like everyone does have these interesting stories. Uh, and I kind of wanted to explore that. So we've written a show called No Small Parts. It's a song cycle. For those who don't know what a song cycle is, instead of being a musical with a story, it's uh a collection of songs on a theme. Each song is its own kind of self-contained story. It's really just a wanky way of saying an album, but if you're doing it in a theatre, it's uh it's a song cycle.

Jimmy 48:44

There's my learning for today. Thank you.

Andrew 48:45

You're welcome. Um I've got so much more information to share. Again, largely about chandelier construction. Um But so that's we were lucky enough to get a few grants, uh, council grants again, because uh Ruth is a very uh also a very talented director, but uh also very talented at getting grants and applying for things and convincing people that what we're doing is interesting, which as you can tell from this podcast is not one of my skills. And so we've been working on that for for years now. Absolutely a long time we've been working on that, and uh that's gonna be staged, it's a workshop performance, so it's not a fully staged, finished version. That's gonna be on at the art house, and um Darren Yap, who is a very well-known director in Sydney, is coming to direct it for us. And uh that's we're learning it all and putting it on in a week. I already know it because I wrote it, but um which is a real leg up for me. But the cast that we've got in are fantastic. Um and that's gonna be on in October, and I can't remember what the dates are, so just I guess Google it. It'll be should I bring I'll bring up my calendar. Yeah, let us know. This might be uh I've turned my phone off. Um I'm always the consummate professional, but that's that's um really exciting, yeah. And again, that's that's something that we've sort of stumbled into via dumb luck and just sort of pursuing what you're interested in. Again, this is something I've been doing since I was sort of 14.

Jimmy 50:21

Yeah.

Andrew 50:21

Just writing these songs, and I'm like, what if what happens if we sort of explore this as a as a more fully fleshed out idea? Let's do it and see where it leads, and it's yeah, now it's being put on.

Jimmy 50:33

So it sounds like you're lucky enough to um turn your hobbies into jobs somehow.

Andrew 50:39

Really lucky.

Jimmy 50:40

Yeah.

Andrew 50:41

Really lucky. It it can be done, but you need the right people around you. That's that's that's the you know, people come up to me and they're like, What's your advice for getting in the music industry? And I'd say, be as lucky as you can. But also just go out and meet people and go out and play. And and the other one, which was a piece of advice that was given to me, is never shy away from being the worst person in the room. Like the least talented person in the room. Go and go and go and be bad with people who are better than you.

Jimmy 51:14

Yep.

Andrew 51:14

Um, there was a there was a big thing recently about trying to a lot of shows are using tracks now. And we've we've done it into the woods use tracks for for logistic reasons, but it's really important to us with the shows that we put on that we we are using real orchestras because that's where I learnt a lot of my craft. I would also go along and play in these orchestras at JMS and and god, I was terrible. Absolutely atrocious playing some of the stuff that I've done in the past, but that's where I learnt, and I got to play with people who were better than me, which was kick ass. I get to look at how they would approach something and go, Oh, yeah, I should have practiced like that, or I should have done this. And that like that's how you learn, is you get into a room with people who are better than you, and don't take your ego with you. I did take my ego with me, but I think I've I think I'm slowly shedding that as I as I approach rapidly approach 40. Um leave your ego at home and go into a room with people who are more talented than you are. Yeah, it's the best way to learn.

Owen 52:21

I'm in that situation at the moment.

Andrew 52:23

I'm in this room right now. In this room currently, right now. Thanks for thanks for acknowledging it.

Owen 52:28

No, that's I mean, self-awareness is one of my T's. It's good. Um, I'm playing guitar at the moment. It took me a second to get that.

Andrew 52:39

That's the that's the joke of the day.

Owen 52:40

Yeah. Um I'm playing guitar at the moment, and uh for this girl, she's a country singer and she's great. And the acoustic guitarist who they originally had lined up, he bailed, and the guy who's playing electric guitar said you should come play acoustic. I I said to him flat hours, I am not qualified to do that. And Tom was like, It's four chords and and and a dream. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna give it a go. And on the weekend played at the stadium on the uh Gosford Stadium, it was fucking mad. Yeah, and I was like, I fucking am not equipped for this, but it was sick. But uh, it's fucking terrifying being in that room when you know everyone's talking about like we're gonna start on the one and then fucking go to the four and fucking do this and do that. And I'm like, what KW in again? Like fucking you're I'm using a hundred percent of my brain capacity to play four chords, like I'm fucking really thinking about it.

Andrew 53:35

Um, but but you're also you're also working harder than anyone in that room, yeah.

Owen 53:40

But like not, I can see it too much.

Andrew 53:44

Not as a diss, but like when I because I've I've been that guy so many times. It's it's great. It's great being in that room with people who are more talented than you. Like go to jam sessions with really talented musicians, and you have to work really hard to keep up, but that's that's the best practice. And it's like so much of it stems from not wanting to look like a dickhead.

Owen 54:04

Yeah, massively.

Andrew 54:05

Like, I want to get away with this, and I've got to work ten times harder than the the people around me to to pull it off.

Owen 54:12

Yeah, it's uh it has I'm definitely playing better guitar though than I was a month ago. Like I'm fucking yeah, it's definitely a steep and aggressive learning curve, but a fucking good one. Yeah, nice.

Andrew 54:25

I'm yeah, I'm I'm I'm not sure how much of an equivalence it is, but I'm I'm experiencing the like songwriting version of that. Because you know, we as we all have, we've written our songs and we, you know, we put them out into the world, or sometimes we don't put them out into the world. I I exclusively do John Farnum um ripoffs. Yeah. Um in terms of what I actually release. Um I'm doing a I'm doing a a two strong hearts parody. It's really good. Um Two Strong T's. Two strong T's. Yeah. Three strong T's. Um but uh yeah, so I'm I'm I'm writing this song cycle at the moment, and it's it's it's a really I guess it's a different thing, but it's the it's the the terror of of throwing something that you've created out into the world to be judged by the general public. Which is which is a real it's a real terrifying thing, is it's like, oh god.

Jimmy 55:23

What will they say?

Andrew 55:25

What will they say? Well we'll is is this crap.

Jimmy 55:29

Ask your mum.

Andrew 55:30

Ask your mum. My mum will lie to me. But uh what I what I've been doing a lot is uh we talk about Amy V. Um low-key, I think she's one of the most talented songwriters out there at the moment, and I hope she never listens to this because her ego will shoot through the roof if she knew that I'd said that about her. But um she's quite inspirational to me because she just puts stuff out. She writes constantly and she's putting new stuff out and making and touring, and like she's a she's what I would call a real touring musician. She'd she's got a moderate fan base, she's not obviously selling out stadiums like Taylor Swift, but she works, works, works. Like she is always out there doing house concerts, like just going to strangers' houses and playing playing her songs and going on the road and losing money going on the road and semi-making up for it for it in CD sales, and then discovering that Spotify has just gouged that market so that you you can't make any money from the music you create. So you're going in and spending, you know, five to ten grand to make an album, paying everyone. It's really important to her that she pays everyone whenever I've gigged for her. And I've said I'm happy to gig for free, and she's like, nah, I'm paying you. Nice. I refuse. She's like, I refuse. I always pay everyone who who comes and does things for me. Uh and she works hard. Like I I look at my life, and again, I'm I'm I keep bringing up dumb luck. I uh like I've got an easy ride. I'm in a really cushy arts job where I put on shows with people with disabilities and and I have no time at all. I've I but uh no time at all to write, but I I also get the opportunity to sit down and write things and have a wife who's really good at securing money so that we can pay people to come and sing those things, and like it's really lucky. And then I I look at what Amy's doing, and it's just like the amount of respect I have for her to be able to go and do that. So I like I take a lot of inspiration for from her about that voice in my head that's like don't you know oh is anyone gonna like my songs that I wrote? Oh right, I've put a lot of work in them, guys. Please like them. And it's like tell that voice to shut up. Yeah, for sure. Because like she she's doing that, and then she has to go out and sell it. Like I've got I'm I've we've got the art house co-producing this this workshop performance. Like it's yeah, I'm lucky.

Jimmy 58:17

You said that yourself, didn't you? I wanna that's the worst part about music is trying to sell sell it afterwards.

Owen 58:22

I I hate that part. I used to play in a band and don't do that anymore, but still write music for other artists and see a song from songwriting through to mastering, but once it leaves mastering, I'm like, I don't want to I can't do the sell thing, like I can't do the everyone thinks it's free road thing. Yeah, no, people people think music's free now, literally.

Andrew 58:41

Spotify has a lot to answer for. Like people think music is free, and there was a beautiful moment in this is just me ranting now. This is a beautiful moment in history. Um and iTunes was wonderful. So music piracy was rife. We had the whole Napster thing, ask your mum. Um had the whole had the whole Napster thing, music piracy was a huge, huge problem.

Jimmy 59:07

I believe Lazaru from Metallica had to sell one of his private jets, didn't he?

Andrew 59:10

I know, it was tough. It was really tough.

Owen 59:12

Talk about being in a room where you're the least talented person. Wow.

Andrew 59:18

No comment, but yeah, spot on. Um but so so that was that was huge. And then iTunes comes along, and it's uh it's like if you make this affordable and accessible for people, they will buy it. People like music sales people were buying ringtones, people were buying songs as ringtones, exactly right. Like you artists would be getting extra money, and yes, Apple takes 30%, not great. Um, it's a pretty steep margin, but at the same time, like people were buying music. Piracy went dropped off because you made it affordable and accessible. It was cheaper than getting a CD and you can just have it on your phone or your iPod at the time or what have you. And piracy just disappeared. And now we're living in streaming land. Spotify comes along, and you know, if you have you know, what is it like 10,000 people stream one of your songs, you can maybe get a cent.

Owen 1:00:17

Yeah, it's pretty nuts. It's yeah, it's like a fucked up amount of streams for a couple of bucks.

Andrew 1:00:24

And it's it's on one hand it's the best time to be a musician in the sense that there are all these avenues for promotion.

Jimmy 1:00:36

Or at least for people to hear your music.

Andrew 1:00:38

For people to hear your music. The internet's huge, obviously. Um I really think it's gonna catch on.

Jimmy 1:00:43

Um we need to get that on a shirt.

Andrew 1:00:48

Ask your mum. You're welcome for the for the merch, I'll take my cover that. Um but at the same time, it's the worst time to be a musician, because if you're a musician, you're also a professional TikToker, you're also a professional Instagrammer, you're a professional social media manager, you're uh you've got you've got to wear all these stupid hats so that anyone will hear your music, and then finally, for the privilege of of people listening to you, if you get 10,000 of them, you might earn a cent.

Jimmy 1:01:18

Yep.

Andrew 1:01:19

Which is disgusting.

Jimmy 1:01:21

It is disgusting.

Andrew 1:01:22

It's a disgusting state of the industry. Like and you know, I'm not in that hustle, but again, I look at someone like Amy who is in that hustle, and it's like, oh for fuck's sake. Like why is this wonderful person who again, and I've said it, is one of the most talented songwriters I think I've met. Her lyrics are incredible, her chord choices are wonderful, and it's a pleasure to play with her. I actually played on a live album for her. She took a risk and recorded a real live album with no overdubs or trickery, just a fun, just an actual live album in front of an audience. That's awesome. Which is great. Um, and I I played on it and I made a big mistake on it.

Owen 1:02:03

Yeah, classic.

Andrew 1:02:04

I made a really big mistake that's on the record because we didn't overdub it. Yeah, uh, I I I jazzed my way out of it. I just tried to tried to make it seem as intentional as possible. Um, and it's actually quite good. I don't I don't hate it, but it is a mistake. But um, but yeah, so she's she's like living that hustle and has to put two billion posts on social media every day, otherwise she'll get knocked out of the algorithm and people won't hear when she's releasing her next album in however long, and it's just endless. And I don't I I don't have the answers, I don't have the solution for well, that was my next question. So What's the solution? What's the answer? Um I think just if people stop making music, I think that's the key. We just cut music out of life and we all just become drones. Corporate drones.

Jimmy 1:02:54

What did I read today? I read on the Byron Bay Bulletin board just before everybody starts to drum circles again. Drumming together and drumming in time are two different things. Yes. Oh god, yes.

Owen 1:03:08

What's the Byron Bay Bulletin board?

Jimmy 1:03:10

Oh, it's just some Facebook page. Oh, like a Batuna avenue. Yeah.

Andrew 1:03:17

Anyway, that's that's my that's my rant on the state of the music industry. It's I don't have much more to say about that. So, but what's what's my future? Uh doing more theatre, making more stuff. I really like making stuff. Yeah, cool. Um whether that's uh and it's not really me. I'm I've I've not really been a performer for a long time. I gig, I play for people, I'm but I'm more of a behind-the-scenes-y type person. But I I really want to write more shows and write more songs and put those out into the world through whatever whatever medium is appropriate for them. That's that's Spotify. Except Spotify. Fuck you, Spotify. Danielek. Danielek, if you listen. Go fuck yourself if you're listening.

Owen 1:04:00

It's probably not. He's probably listening to a podcast about the best drones to buy to destroy countries.

Andrew 1:04:05

Uh he probably just has AI generate podcasts for him now.

Owen 1:04:08

I mean, it's that easy, right? It's that easy.

Andrew 1:04:10

Why are you even talking to me?

Owen 1:04:11

You could just I don't know. Should just speech to text it. Speech to text it, yeah.

Andrew 1:04:16

I'll I'll give you enough. You can make a little digital print of my voice and just have me say whatever. Permission? Well, you've already got enough. I've just seen I've seen my waveform over on the uh just the the the fat cube that is my waveform. So see, I'm sure you've got enough data on me now that you can generate an AI voice and have me say whatever you like.

Owen 1:04:38

So I actually think the next three episodes are all AI, so we're good. Great, fantastic. Knock off. That's yeah, you can go home. This is great.

Jimmy 1:04:49

I know you don't hear, I don't know how to use a console.

Owen 1:04:52

I'm not even using the console, so you're right. Console is purely a uh decorative piece.

Andrew 1:05:00

Here's the thing, and uh as somebody who's worked as somebody who has worked in sound engineering, um, I can tell you. And I th I I think I can honestly tell you, most of those knobs don't do anything, they're just decorative. He's lying, don't listen to him. You don't actually need you don't need any of them. Um sound basically just does itself. Yep. You know, you just make noises. What happens, doesn't it? You don't need a sound engineer to hold a conversation. No, sound is just wobbly air.

Owen 1:05:28

Wobbly air is it's just wobbly air.

Andrew 1:05:30

It's all an illusion, and and we sound engineers just try and tack on as many fake buttons and dials to make it look like we're working really hard. And we're needed. Yeah, and we're needed. We've got to keep it gotta keep a job somehow in this industry. Fucking job. Absolutely. Goodness me. Uh how do you feel about that? About that line of uh No, I completely agree. Yeah. Um, years ago, I I an engineer friend of mine um There was a singer who was uh a bit obnoxious when it came to sound check. And they were like, Oh, I need delay in my wedge. Okay. I need reverb lots of reverb and delay in my wedge. And I need I need compression, you've got to compress it. Now, as a sound engineer, you know compression in a foldback wedge is just not great. Yeah. For those who don't know, compression makes loud sounds softer and softer sounds louder as an average. So if you've got feedback, it's gonna make the feedback happen better effectively. Yeah. Um you you're giving it more of an opportunity. Um he would constantly be like, no, I need more compression. And he also didn't really know what he was talking about. Oh. Um and a sound engineer friend of mine who was who was working on a a show with him was like, I know what to do here. He'd always go and check the gear as well. And so he had an old compressor that was that was actually internally bypassed, nice, but still had the flashing lights to show that that sound was going through it. And so he printed out this beautiful label, which was D fac. It was the D fac compressor, D F-A-C. Um does fuck all. Does fuck all compressor is what that stands for. You've you've picked it, and he put it in his rack, and the and he'd be like, Yeah, no, I've put the compression on, and he'd show him, you know, putting the compression up, and he'd come over and check and be like, Oh yeah, that's good, that's good. But no, so that was the D fact. And as and as soon as you told him there was compression on, he'd be like, Oh yeah, great, no, I can hear that. That's really good. I could definitely hear that. Yeah, I can hear that. That's that's making a huge difference. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, but no, so it was the D fac.

Jimmy 1:07:43

People asking for more in the foldback always annoyed me for some reason. You know, you just like you go see a band sometimes, and there's always one guy going, I need a bit more in the foldback. You're like, No, you don't, just fucking play.

Andrew 1:07:53

Like, yeah, but they might. I've been that guy before. Probably can't fucking hear themselves. Uh it's less what what I do find as a as a musician on stage, I don't I don't mind if I can't hear myself as much. For keyboard stuff, I do mind because I need to hear what the keyboards do if I don't have my own amp or something, but I kind of think it's my job to hear myself. But if I can't hear the people that I need to hear to get cues off or that I'm playing with, I want to hear what they're playing.

Jimmy 1:08:24

Let's be fair. I've never played a venue good enough to have foldbacking.

Andrew 1:08:31

But yeah, no, I I I I and everyone's different, but it's uh there's a lot of a lot of singers who are like, I need to hear myself really loudly, and I'm like, but aren't can't you can't you always hear yourself? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Owen 1:08:45

I get that I get that in the studio as well. We've got little there's one just there, we've got those little hearback systems like personal mixes, and when I get to vocals with an artist, I just break it down so they just have you know their vocal and uh like the track, and that's it. Yeah, and uh they always are like oh I can't hear the track, I can't hear the track, I can't hear the track, and I'm like, oh okay, give me give me a second, let me have a listen. I go and put their headphones on, look at the mixer, and their vocal is just fucking dimed in the headphones. Yes. And it's just like, yeah, and it also makes them so pitchy, yeah. Like they can't fucking yeah, it's classic. Yeah, singers are the worst. Maybe bassists are the worst, and then singers are the worst.

Andrew 1:09:31

Maybe. Maybe maybe so we've had a nice little It's been really wonderful today about a delightful conversation. I've I've yammered on as much as I can.

Jimmy 1:09:44

And where are you going? Um I've had a great time. Thanks for coming.

Andrew 1:09:48

I've had I've had a really great time. It's been been lovely to talk at people. The monitor's off. Yeah, the monitors are off. That's all right no no, as in the the video.

Owen 1:10:00

Oh, my monitor behind me is off.

Andrew 1:10:02

Yeah. I can't see my I can't see my chunky, my chunky waveform anymore. Um sorry for that, Tangent. You're you're about to that's right.

Jimmy 1:10:11

I was just gonna I was actually gonna I was gonna wrap us up. Um not that I don't want to sit here and talk to you forever, but you know, um I think we've just had a great conversation and uh it's been awesome to learn about uh you know what you do in the industry and how you approach it. It's it's been amazing. Um but one thing I always like to do before we finish up is to ask you to recommend me a song to listen to and also for the listeners at home. Um now it can be anything at all. Andrew, it can be a song from a song you've written, a song you like listening to, a song from Rent, so that Owen um can't be a song from Rent.

Andrew 1:10:52

Uh it's definitely not gonna be a song from Rent. Um Yeah, song recommendation. Uh so there's a wonderful band. They're an instrumental band, but I'm not gonna recommend an instrumental one. Uh they're a band called Snarky Puppy, which you may have heard of. Isn't anyone know Snarky Puppy? Yeah. They're phenomenal. Uh and they're uh they're a jazz instrumental band led by a guy called Michael League. And that it's just the most talented musicians in the world getting together and having a jam session. That's that's all of their things, all of their albums, except for one, I think. Or maybe a couple, uh, recorded live. They're everyone there's a live audience who all get a pair of headphones and they listen in and they're beautifully recorded. Uh anyway, they've got a series called their Family Dinner series, which is where they get other performers in and Snarky Puppy will do a version of your song with you.

Jimmy 1:11:46

Okay, cool.

Andrew 1:11:47

Um and there is a song, and I'm trying to remember exactly what the song's called, that I really like. And it's I don't even think it's the best song on the album, but it's the one that's popping to mind. Uh, and it's a song on Snarky Puppy's Family Dinner Volume 1, and it's called Gone Under. Sick. And it's really good. There's a just kick-ass vocalist singing over one of the tightest rhythm and horn sections you've ever heard in your life.

Owen 1:12:22

Awesome. Who's the vocalist? Because I imagine it's their original song.

Andrew 1:12:26

Uh I could be making this name up, but I think her name is Sheena Shaw. Cool. Uh that could be a made-up name. I think it is Sheena, but I might be making up the last name. So please don't um don't take my word on that.

Jimmy 1:12:40

We're gonna find it, and uh Owen's gonna put a little snippet in at the end of the podcast to wrap it up.

Andrew 1:12:45

So well play the play the bit with the drums at the end, or whichever bit you choose. It'll be the bit of the drums. I don't I don't want to dictate what you can do. It'll be the bit of the drums. It'll be it's the good bit. Um it's really good. It's a good it's a good good track, just really tight. I like it when musicians are good and they play songs at me. Yeah, I really like it. Thanks.

Jimmy 1:13:10

Thanks for coming in. Thanks, Alwan.

Owen 1:13:12

Pleasure. Lovely headphones. Yep. Uh my headphones are by Audio Technica.

Andrew 1:13:16

Are they real are they real audiotechnicers?

Owen 1:13:18

Yeah, these are the real deals. Man, I'm jealous.

Andrew 1:13:20

They should really fifties, baby. Hey, Audio Technica, if you're listening, this podcast's great, and you should and we love you. You should sponsor sponsor this podcast. Um why not? Why not? Audiotechnica, reach out.

Jimmy 1:13:33

Thanks, Andrew.