Jason De Wilde

Today I sit down and talk to Jason De Wilde. Jason is one of the lectures at The Grove Studios Academy, and potentially the only person in the world louder than myself. Listen as we talk about what goes down at The Academy, what it's like to setup a music school overseas, running the sound board for theatre production and how many microphones you need to set up an orchestra. the answer may surprise you.  

Song Credits

Birthday                                                                                                                    Preformed by: The Sugarcubes                                                                                      Written by: The Sugarcubes                                                                                         Lyrics by: Bjork Guomundsdottir                                                                                        Source: One Little Independent Records 

 Playlist of songs or bands mentioned in todays episode 

welcome to Studio 2
https://www.instagram.com/welcometo_studio2?igsh=OXJyOGcxMTJveHhj&utm_source=qr

Jason De Wilde                                  https://www.instagram.com/jasondewilde_sound?igsh=OGNuaXR4dTg3NXlx

Owen Butterworth
https://www.instagram.com/owenbutterworth?igsh=MTdvdm12ZXNydXlqbQ==

The Grove Studios Academy                              https://www.instagram.com/thegrovestudiosacademy?igsh=MW9rd3J3ZDd0aDk0Nw==

Transcript

Jimmy 0:00

Um so welcome to studio two. Hi. Um today we have Jason DeWald chatting with us today. Jason is one of the lecturers at the Academy, and we're going to have a competition on who can speak the loudest, it sounds like.

Jason 0:14

Yeah, I think, well, I don't know. I I've had six hours of practice this today because I've just come out of a class for so uh yeah, you'll have to get your game up there, man.

Jimmy 0:23

Well, I will, I will, and I mean this is a bit intimidating. Well, not intimidating, but a bit different here where um, you know, Jason's probably spent more time here at the studio than I ever have, so he's well versed in what's going on here. So what I'd like to do today though is uh first of all have a bit of a chat about the academy, seeing as though it's a big part of what's happening here at the Grove. Um and as somebody who's you know currently new to learning a lot about music in the music industry, I think it might be a good opportunity for you to try to give me a month's worth in however much we can, however long it takes, how long you got on trying to get a free short course. Well, it might be. Hey, do if I if I sign up, do I get some uh RPLs afterwards or what?

Jason 1:06

Yeah. So my answer to that is you speak the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. Um, so so I I guess I've been at Grove now for about five years. I think I started like somewhere near the pandemic, I think, somewhere. Um, but I've been teaching for like 35 years, so a long time. And one of the things I really, really like about Grove is that basically there's it's kind of like a much smaller version, not like a university. So it's kind of like a family here, you know. So you you're with the same students for a whole year if you're doing the advanced uh the diploma, and then another year if you're doing the advanced diploma. So there's this real kind of like the teachers really start to know their students really well. Now I've worked at other education institutes, won't say who they are, but they're all like where you pay 50 grand and and like it's a crazy amount. And you're just a number in those places, and I think that's a really big difference. And the other thing is as well, is that Grove is actually a commercial recording studio, so you know, you see bands coming up to Studio One, you know, you've got Scott and you've got Owen around, and who are like talking about bands that on a commercial studio property, yeah. All of the other schools simulate recording studios, they're not actually recording studios, and I think there's a massive difference about that, you know. So um, in the fact that it's you know, uh it's a real environment with real gear that uh that's kind of like yeah, just much more, you get a more commercial sense about it. Okay. Um, and then I guess the other thing for me why I think Grove's really important is that there's um there's just a d a degree of like flexibility. So at an institute, you have to generally form a committee to change the curriculum in any way at all. So and it's like so that if something probably need a subcommittee for the committee, that's right, exactly. And you're kind of like going, oh man, and so by the time your little change to the curriculum gets through, it's already obsolete, you know. So for me, Grove is way more fluid than that. You can say, hey, um, okay, this new thing's come in, let's talk about it. And and it kind of comes part of our of the sort of the culture here, just having that fluidity, talking about more recent things that are happening in the world of music, etc. etc.

Jimmy 3:46

Yeah.

Jason 3:46

Um so with all that in mind, you know, I I guess a month uh in in uh at Grove uh would be either focused on the business side of things, because a lot of people when they leave these courses, I I think they're not really going to get employed. The the days of big employment where companies employ you, I think are kind of over. So we teach people more to be like freelance engineers, and I think that is really important because um I just think employability in terms of like working for somebody is not not a thing in our kind of so you can't rely on it in a sense, hey, you can't rely on it in a sense you can't yeah, it's just not enough jobs there, so so but there's loads of freelance work, and so we focus a lot on rather than being employers, we talk about getting clients and talking about you know managing finances and all that kind of stuff, you know. So that's one aspect, and then you know, then there's sort of the whole getting to know the technology side of things, which is obviously really important, and that's what a lot of students who don't have access to some of a lot of this gear, you know, they get finally get to sort of use it and understand it. So I think that's really important, and then we kind of also talk about like the the world of film and film sound and media sound, so um, and that's really cool. So, because again, students haven't really been exposed to that kind of thing before. Um, and then the final thing is that live sound area, which you know is such a that is a really big you know area where students can become freelance engineers, so that's a really important aspect too.

Jimmy 5:29

So, as a student on my first day when I rock up, apart from having a passion for music, what what do I need to know? Do I need to know anything or am I going to learn everything I need to know?

Jason 5:38

Look, I think um I I think it's there's an advantage if you have had some experience with a digital audio workstation or a home studio, or even if you've just recorded something on Garage Band, you know, whatever, yeah, that you've just got some kind of experience and have gone through that in some way. Because then you can a lot of what we then say is then you can just kind of relate to what you've done in the past. Yep. So it's not a prerequisite as such, but uh so we in in that way we do teach you from scratch, but it is so much more advantageous if you've just got something that you have recorded before and gone through that process of some way.

Owen 6:19

Yep. Yeah, or I think students that I think get off on a good foot as well are those ones that are on the other side of it and are just like artists that have experience not even producing their own music, but like maybe working with a producer or even just playing gigs or attending lots of gigs. They people who are just like generally connected to the industry. Maybe connected is not the strongest word, but just you know, people who have experience in any facet of of the creation of music, whether it's like songwriting and playing gigs or or doing a little bit of home recording, as Jace said, like those people are the ones that I think start the strongest.

Jason 6:57

Yeah, that I I agree I agree with that too. And just because uh that often is also the thing that is why you're passionate about it, because you've you might have already kind of had a go at playing guitar or whatever.

Jimmy 7:09

Well, I was gonna mention that. I mean, I I'm known for well, you know, known amongst my friends as kind of geeking out on subjects for a little while and learning as much as I can about them. I just get like super just you know, in just entrenched in whatever I'm learning about, and then after three or four months, I'm like on to the next subject. But it's that passion that that allows you to, you know, like um if you if you want to learn it, you'll teach yourself, right? Like it's that that kind of that kind of theory. And if you don't, then somebody else will learn it. Like it's it's not it's not for you. So I think I kind of get what you're saying there, Ellen, with that whole if you just have that that love and that passion for it, probably learning those new things is a lot easier.

Jason 7:52

It's it's a hell of a lot easier, yeah. And and struggle, yeah. Because like if if you haven't had any kind of experience, you don't know really why you're doing the course. And and I think you know, people who have a clear like understanding and go, okay, I've dabbled in this, I understand that I actually have limitations because I've dabbled in it and I can only go to a certain point. Now I need a course, and so there is a clear goal in mind as to kind of like what they need to get out of the course. If you're just kind of coming in and going, Oh, I've seen the video clips, I've seen people use like these console things. That kind of I I kind of don't think they're the right necessarily the right student, they're not on the right mind frame, right? Not the right mind frame at all. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy 8:39

Awesome. So we come in, like I've um been over into the um the barn a few times, yeah. Part of the crew that helped build the barn, so you know, got some connections there with it, and you walk in there and have a look at the setup that we've got in there. Can you explain to me what's you know what you have in there?

Jason 8:57

Yep, so each student that um that starts at Grove pretty much gets um a Mac for them for the entire course that they you know can put all their files on and stuff like that. Um, all of the Macs have got um an industry standard um like digital audio workstation. So we primarily use Pro Tools here, um, although I'm always pushing for a reason, but it's a different digital audio workstation, but it's it's kind of funny. But um the but we we have Pro Tools, which is used in 95% of recording studios around the world, and you've really got to know that stuff. Um and so yeah, so that they kind of get that. Um they all have a um effectively a kind of it's it's a we call it an audio interface, but it's just basically uh a sound card that you have that you have, but it's a box that you can you know plug microphones into, etc. etc. So do some basic recording there. Um and then students just really need to bring their own headphones to kind of plug in all their into our systems, and we're pretty much good to go after that. Yeah, and they we all have a MIDI controller as well, which is really important as well for for sort of production work as well. So I think that's it.

Owen 10:16

Yeah, we're just about to upgrade all the computers as well, which is exciting because they're all getting tired, so we're about to upgrade them all to MCP Max, which is gonna be great.

Jason 10:26

That is just so great news. Yeah, it's gonna be awesome.

Jimmy 10:30

Fan tax awesome, good. So you mentioned that you kind of get into the the business finance side of music. Yeah, um, I mean, one thing I hear a lot in the music industry is there's there is no money in the music industry, but obviously you're teaching uh business and finance side. So yeah, touch on that for me.

Jason 10:50

So for me, um, one of the things that um I've definitely noticed with all students that I've taught is that there's not enough about finance in high school. And um so it's about for me, about you know, firstly the the the basics of like setting up a business and so on and so forth. But then this whole idea of tax deductions, like it's it is crazy, and that's it's actually almost my favorite lesson in the whole year because it's just you know one of these things that like students that they who are already spending money on music then suddenly realize oh well you can actually get a tax deduction about that, and there's like it just blow kind of blows their mind. Yep. So we do spend a lot about that. I'm also quite a big um uh advocate of like saving, so superannuation, all of that kind of stuff, and it's all stuff that really should have been taught in high school because it's way more like useful, but nobody does, so it ends up falling into my lap to do yeah.

Owen 11:57

It's also stuff that wasn't. I studied uh I have like an audio engineering or creative industries degree um from a not from here from a different institution in Sydney, and it's not something that I touched on doing that two-year degree. Like I did I had all of these bullshit units on like collaborating with other faculties and sh like teamwork and shit like that, which you know you're you're already working as a team within your own, like all the audio students are all working together with music students. I didn't need to meet any of the animation students, nor did I want to. Um I would have rather uh you know, someone be like, This is how you send an invoice, this is how you fucking squirrel away some money for tax, like this is how you be a freelance person. Because yeah, it's not something I did in my course, and I did in a very similar course to to these students, yeah. Um, and it's nuts. Definitely something that should start in high school, but it's mental to me that it's not it wasn't being taught in uh in an audio engineering degree.

Jason 13:04

And that goes to the earlier point of those institutes because that they're thinking, oh, you'll just get a job. So you're gonna be employed by somebody. So like tax and that kind of and invoicing is irrelevant, you know. So that's such a huge difference here because we do we say, okay, you might get a job, great, but actually the best chances are gonna be doing well on your own. Freelancing and getting clients, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then they're that by virtue of that, invoicing and saving and managing cash flow and all that kind of stuff is like super important, yeah.

Jimmy 13:39

Yeah, and then we get into um audio engineering, sound engineering. Um essentially, when I leave here with a a degree in music, what does that degree allow me to do? So you will leave not with the degree, sorry, diploma andor advanced diploma, yeah.

Jason 13:57

So yeah, you'll end up with an advanced diploma. And the question was, what what do you get out of that? Well, what does it allow me to do when I leave? Well, pretty much uh it you know, it basically allows you to explore whatever practical part of the music industry you would want to get into. So um, whether you want to be uh an artist that's looking to be able to produce your own stuff or work with others, or do you want to be a somebody who likes getting into film stuff? Are you somebody who likes to get into sound engineering, or are you somebody that likes to get into combinations of all that stuff? A lot of our units actually, in a way, ask you to explore like what you actually want to do. So I'm not going, you must be a sound engineer. You you go, what do you want to do? And so it's about like clarifying to them and themselves actually, like, what do I want to do? I want to be a part session musician, but I also want to write my own stuff and I want to be able to produce that. So that allows the course allows you to explore those areas and research and like understand what that world is. So yeah, so it's basically what do you want to be? Whatever you want. In fact, it's it's interesting because we've also had students ironically that kind of do a whole diploma in music and then go, you know what? I really want to get into like visuals, and and or they want to do, yeah. I think we've got a present student who's like actually wants to do something like curating um art galleries, yeah. Like using audio is maybe as like an aspect of that. An aspect of that, yeah.

Owen 15:33

Yeah, yeah. We've had a uh obviously we've had a bunch of students that go on to you know work in the industry, and there's a bunch working in recording studios, some working in radio stations, others in like management and some labels, others are just great freelancers. But I can think of weirdly think of two students. One went on because they both sent me emails for their like they needed extra stuff after they get their diploma certificate, and one of them went on to do um like microbiology, and the other went on to do secondary teaching, and they both just used it as like you know, they use their AQF level and just like that was their gaining entry to university. Oh, yeah, cool. Um, so there's always that option as well. If you do a year of a diploma and then you go, ah, it's not not really for me. I'm just gonna use that as now an entry into some other course, some higher education, which is an option for students as well.

Jason 16:24

Yeah. And we've also had it the other way, you know, where you you get doctors who then go, I want to be a sound engine. Awesome.

Owen 16:31

Yeah, and then with that particular student was awesome because he retired as a doctor, came and studied, then the pandemic hit, and his work were like, Hey, look, I hate to call you out of retirement, uh, but he was like he specialised in viruses. Okay, so he got called back to study COVID and then came back a year after that again to finish the business course. Yeah, what's he doing now? Do you know? Uh he's got a little home studio and just like you know, kind of hobbyist rec recording and records his mates' bands and himself, and yeah, yeah, cool.

Jimmy 17:05

Well, that sounds awesome.

Jason 17:06

Yeah, I think also, and I think the other thing as well is that you know, a lot of the students, and you know, they're they're kind of young, you know, that so finance and like managing how do I transition from my job at you know said supermarket into a freelance world. So we kind of like talk about how that would work as well, and and and you know, and I think that's important to understand that you, you know, we give, I guess the reality check is that okay, you know, the world won't open up for you straight away, so you do have to think about a transition into it. Um, and I think that's a more realistic approach, you know, and so that that's kind of cool too.

Owen 17:46

I never thought it would have been really funny for you telling a retired doctor about superannuation.

Jason 17:51

I know I was like, hey, is it right? No, no, it'd be all right. Yeah, but but certainly tax deductions. Oh, 100%.

Jimmy 18:02

Yeah, absolutely. So all right, let's have a little chat about that then. So you're spending money on music, are we talking pretty much any instrument, gigs? What what can we what can we deduct?

Jason 18:14

Well, so firstly, the the rule number one is you have to earn a little bit of an income for it first to claim it as a tax deduction. So that's the first aspect. But once you start doing that, then pretty much, well, I don't know, you know, from gear, obviously, and most people want to buy home studios, so that's fine. Yeah, any headphones, um, Netflix subscriptions, Spotify subscriptions, uh car travel, what you know, anything like that.

Owen 18:44

Yeah, my Dropbox subscription. Dropbox subscriptions, yeah. Yeah, website hosting, I claim that. Yep. Um phone bill, I claim that as well. Of course, phone bills.

Jason 18:55

Part of your rent. Yep. So if you are, if you know, if you have a um a home studio and you are earning income from that, your rent kind of becomes a tax deduction. So obviously, you know, I'm not qualified to give financial advice, but I just kind of know, yeah. Um and the the this is the other thing as well, is because if some say you're working at a supermarket, there's very few tax deductions you can do for a supermarket, but if you then supplement that income with a little bit of freelance work, then you can kind of offset there's enough deductions that you can actually offset it off your your your supermarket income as well. We're just gonna have you on for um Jason's tax corner. I'm passionate about this stuff because I yeah, it's uh yeah, it's it's it kind of blows students' minds. Yeah. And and this the whole idea too about super superannuation, oh my gosh, you know, seriously, because you know, I wish I had got some of my own classes back when I was, you know, a knee height or a grasshopper, because it'd be like I probably wouldn't be working for Grove anymore. Or I'd be doing it for love, let's put it that way.

Jimmy 20:12

So also you mentioned before that um you love the you know the fluidity of the Grove being able to when new stuff comes in, and um what's new?

Jason 20:25

Well, see the the thing about it is is like almost every project that we kind of work on is new, and that's the other thing. Like Grove is not my main job, it's kind of I come here one day a week, but um, so that means that you know I bring projects that I'm currently working on into the classroom. So that becomes like it's new for me because it's a new project. It's like we can talk about it because it's part of the curriculum, and so every and so lots of little situations kind of come in as doing those projects where you um where you wish you can actually bring to the classroom. So even last week, you know, crazy. I've got you know, I had three cancellations. So I'm like, so the topic of today is how do you um like combat cancellations when when when your clients just ring up at the last minute, you know. So how do you do that? So that so that's kind of the topical thing. So and generally what I do is as well, if I'm working on a you know, a new bit of software or a new plug-in or something like that, I'll bring that into the classroom as well and show people how to use that, you know.

Jimmy 21:33

Yeah, so yeah. It's sounded for a minute like you were just getting your students to do your work for you when you said you bring in all your little No, no, not at all. No, no, no, no.

Jason 21:42

My reputation's on the line of that. Yeah, although, mind you, uh you know, so uh occasionally uh well at least at least yearly, I do a um a really big recording at the Sydney Town Hall. Yeah. Um and it's a massive thing. It's like 20 orchestral pieces. Massive thing and ranges from like taiko drums all the way up to like symphony orchestra with 500 choir and stuff like that. And I always get Grove students to help me out with that. It's just it's kind of the tradition. I was like, oh, got a big gig. And so we that happens. So it it is a little bit about like getting them help to help me on these projects. Um I've got another big one coming up at White Bay Power Station pretty soon, and again, it's an orchestral stuff.

Owen 22:27

And not a rave?

Jason 22:29

No, I'm not doing the rave. I think it's the day after when they bring the orchestra. So they're still mopping up. The recovery orchestra.

Jimmy 22:38

You like how they played at the um supermarket to get rid of little kids, they just bring the orchestra in and try to get rid of any straggles that are left over.

Jason 22:44

Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy 22:45

Well, you'd probably um hang around for a little bit if you heard them rock up.

Jason 22:48

Yeah, totally, yeah. I think, you know, I think for me, I don't know. We were talking about it today, is that you know, I I don't record young bands anymore. That's what they that's what my students do, right? So, you know, so we were talking about SWOT analysis, you know, lovely topic to talk about. So one of the threats I have is that students will take work from me, and that's true, they do, right? Because they they're recording the young bands. So how do I mitigate that? Well, I record older bands, I record orchestras and stuff like that. So I kind of in that way talk to them about okay, nothing there are threats, but you need to under understand how you mitigate that, you know.

Jimmy 23:29

So yeah, yeah. Well, I suppose um when you're starting out, three-piece bands probably easier to get your head around than uh orchestra, right?

Jason 23:36

And also too, they're all that they're all mates with them, you know. They sort of they they they all know people in bands and they or they're playing in a band themselves, so that's all that's just great. That's what they need to be exposed to, you know.

Jimmy 23:48

Um, so as you mentioned, this isn't your main job.

Jason 23:52

Your main job is so um, so I I I I'm a sort of producer, engineer, lecturer. That's kind of my three things. So I've I've been mainly weirdly enough teaching for like 35 years. That's kind of been my main gig. Full-time teacher at various institutes, including your said one there. I'm doing yeah, and I and I've been around the world with with various setting up various colleges and stuff like that. So that's been my main gig, but all along the um kind of that my entire career, I've always been sidelining as a freelance engineer. So I've been always recording bands, always doing stuff like that. Um and then at one point I just went total freelance, so I now I guess it started off as mainly doing teaching, but over time I would say now I'm about 70% sound engineer and producer versus maybe 30% teaching. Yeah.

Jimmy 24:52

And when you say freelance, does that mean you skip from studio to studio, or do you work at a home studio?

Jason 24:58

Yeah, a bit of both, or yeah, so where the project calls for it, I will go to a studio. Uh, most of the time, I either go to the venue because I'm recording orchestras or something like that, or the clients come to my studio, or I'll get projects remotely. So, for example, um I'm do I have a regular client who is a meditation guru in Singapore. Okay, she's awesome, so great. So I got basically a friend of mine composes all the music, she then puts a voiceover over the top of it, and then I get all the files to mix it. And we've been doing that, she does like maybe 16, 17 tracks, so it's effectively a year is an album's worth of work every year, and you know, these meditations go for you know 20 minutes long or something like that, and it's just been so great, and that's all remote. Like, I don't even see, I don't see my friend, I don't see her, it's just it all happens remotely.

Jimmy 25:56

But so they they essentially go and record all this everywhere else, and you just get given the yeah, yeah.

Jason 26:02

So he the my friend is the composer, he has a home studio, he sends all these files over to me. Um, my client goes to a small studio in Singapore, does the voiceover, sends the voiceover file to me. Done.

Jimmy 26:15

Amazing, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Jason 26:18

Um, and then on top of that, yeah, then I've got quite a lot of orchestral work. I've just found myself in that, which has been great. I really enjoy that kind of stuff. So um that's you know, for various private schools and also for I'm doing quite a lot of work with the Sydney Youth Orchestra, so there's sort of young people that are taking up classical stuff, and that's kind of yeah, it's a little niche I've just found myself in, really.

Jimmy 26:43

So that's cool. So, I mean, how's the transition from recording young bands into recording orchestras? That must be quite a difference.

Jason 26:51

It was, yeah, yeah. Certainly, you know, I uh over I mean, I'd I'd done a little of it, you know, maybe 10-15 years ago, done a little bit of it, just you know, didn't research much and just tried it. But then, you know, as I've started to get regular clients, so too has my understanding and knowledge of like orchestral recording kind of, but a lot of the principles still apply, whether you're recording a drum kit or a violin, it's still a microphone into something, and you know, there's still the same principles, it's just you know, and in some ways it's louder than a rock band, so so you know, so there's lots of that kind of stuff, and you know, there's just more musicians, and it's all live, so there's there is yeah, there is definitely um you know elements that you could take from recording a rock band, but you know, there's always 60 or 70 musicians more than what a rock band normally has. A lot of microphones, uh weirdly enough, less microphones. Okay, explain. So, well, I I know a whole lesson in orchestral recording. Here we go. Decaturies, let's 15 minutes go. Big deep breath. No, so bottom line, you know, the basic principle is that the conductor is the person that is actually mixing it for you. Okay. So all you need to really do to start off in the most basic way is just put two microphones right over the conductor's head, and you can record it just like that.

Jimmy 28:18

Wow.

Jason 28:18

So in a very so 80-piece orchestra can actually be quite convincingly recorded with two microphones. So very it's surprisingly less. And I always ask my students so here's this orchestral recording, how many microphones? And oh 80 or 90.

Owen 28:34

Ah everyone gets their own microphone in the orchestra.

Jason 28:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that it doesn't happen like that. So it's yeah, you know, and over time you might start, you know, as as as as my rig has expanded, because I've you know doing doing more orchestral recordings, so I've had to buy a bit more gear. So I might now add, you know, I might do 16 mics. So my rig is now about 16 microphones for a full orchestra.

Owen 28:59

And for context, I put 16 microphones just on the drum kit. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. It's also like when you're recording orchestras or when you listen to orchestra recordings, it's it's more about the space that you're in as well. It's about obviously the performers, the piece, and the space, those are kind of like the three big things, right? Because it's always like, you know, um mm Mozart performed by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra live at the opera house. Like it's like those are the three things. So if you're getting all three things from a recording point, one of them being the space, obviously, whether you know it's the opera house, the Royal Albert Hall, Capitol Theatre, like whatever, um, that's part of it as well. So when you've only got two mics over someone's head, that's kind of simulating their ears, right? That's how the conductor's hearing it, that's how you're then gonna present that recording to the audience as well, to the yeah, the listening audience later.

Jimmy 29:52

Yeah. Well that was a little another little question, actually, beautiful little segue um about live mixing. So is that one of my friends reckons the best place to stand is always right in front of the sound desk because that bloke's mixing it's gonna sound the best there. Obviously you do have to consider the space you're in. So where does where do you like as an engineer or a mixer, how do how do you draw the line or where do you draw the line on how good it sounds to you and how good it sounds to everyone around you?

Jason 30:23

Well, you are mixing for the audience, so it the system that you are using needs to be able to accommodate kind of most audience members, like some you know, obviously if you're up the front and it's you know, like you mosh it away, it's like it's a different experience, but but generally you are trying to cater for the entire audience, not just yourself. However, most of the time you are sitting at that one spot, so you are mixing for yourself, pretty much, yeah. So it kind of becomes an average, a kind of law of averages, pretty much.

Owen 30:56

So yeah, and more of those tricky uh venues or like bigger venues, whether it's like you know, big like amphitheatres or things like that. The role, my understanding is the role of you know, distributing the sound, so to speak, falls less on the front of the house operator, falls less on the live sound engineer and more on the system operator, the person who's organized and set up the PA so that there's like you know, there's two massive line arrays at the front of the stage, but then you know, if you're in a stadium, there's then a second set of speakers that are probably roughly where the sound desk is, and then those are blasting out on a slight delay back to the back of the stadium or the back of the amphitheatre. Um, so there's there's another person involved in making sure it sounds good for everyone in those humongous venues.

Jason 31:43

Yeah, yeah, it's a sit the systems engineer, yeah. That's right, yeah, totally. And the other thing, yeah, I think it's worth is that if the band or the the players are making their own noise, then you've kind of got to accommodate that too. So, you know, uh again, I go back to some of my orchestral work, you know. I I do live sound orchestral stuff, which is like a whole new kind of crazy thing, but um most of the time you actually don't want to hear the PA system, you actually just want to hear the musicians themselves. So your PA is just there to kind of like get a sense that it's a bit louder, and so you really don't want to hear it like because most of the time the speakers on a on those kind of gigs is quite wide, so you don't really want to have the audience listening to the speakers, you want them listening to the front, so yeah, and that that I'm that goes for sort of more you know um uh contemporary music as well. Yeah. Another area, you know, I think that I think is also really interesting is the area of music theatre, like the sound of like music theatre sound. I've started getting into that too.

Jimmy 32:56

Yep.

Jason 32:56

So that is like where you have like, I don't know, I recently um did a production of Mary Poppins for a school, and so you have like 20 cast members, you have a you know, 40-piece band, and you have like and you've got a yeah, you have to you're mixing on the fly. So when a cast member speaks, that microphone has to be up and on, and then when they don't speak, that microphone has to be down and off, and you are like this. You're moving like and this is me like moving faders up, moving faders down the whole time for like three hours straight, and there's a script you have to follow, so you're turning pages, turning up things up and down. It is crazy.

Owen 33:40

It makes me sweaty behind the knees just thinking about like it's you know I know the the the cast mics I think would be a head fuck enough, and then you add in the band, it's just like just nuts.

Jason 33:53

Yeah, it's and you know, and then I've I had one musical where they actually had two casts. So cast A would come on one night, or even the do the matinee session, and then cast B would come on another night, so it's completely different cast, so the whole sounds are completely different again. Oh wow, yeah, yeah, that was my first ever music theatre show. I felt like I got more grey hairs than I already had, but oh man, but it's but it's it's a beautiful, it's a really interesting world, and nobody tells you about that. Like, so I I bring I bring that experience. I showed, you know, like I showed the students the Mary Poppin script and all my markings and you know how it was all planned out and all that kind of stuff. And you know, again, it's something that I can do because Grove's fluidity allows you to do that, yeah.

Jimmy 34:44

So it's right, way cool. Yeah, awesome. So do you have any outlets outside of music? It sounds like you're so busy with all your projects and doing everything that you don't really have much time for anything else. Um well, yes.

Owen 35:01

You're actually speaking to a bit of a champion, yeah, a bit of a sports champion.

Jason 35:05

I don't know. Yeah, if you call ping pong a sport, absolutely sport. I know, I know. So I always challenge the students. You can do your assessments or you can beat me at ping pong. Nobody's everyone has done their assessments, no one's been there. But we don't have a ping pong table here. That is kind of on my list of yeah, we can facilitate that. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I I'm uh I'm a really, really mad ping pong player.

Jimmy 35:32

It's been something you've always been.

Jason 35:34

Yeah, weirdly enough, yeah, as a kid, just yeah, in the garage, you know, where you're kind of cramped and like trying to hit a ball. But yeah, I've just kind of yeah, progressed a little bit and I just love it, you know. And and you know, I'm 59, so I kind of like need a sport that kind of maintains hand-eye coordination, a level of fitness that doesn't involve running or lifting shit.

Jimmy 35:55

Yeah, you know, running with a passion. Man, I hate running with a passion.

Owen 36:00

It seems so pointless to me. Well, I mean, running for running's sake is the dumbest thing.

Jimmy 36:05

If I'm gonna do anything, I'll swim, I'll swim for kilometres and kilometres, but running, I know, I just it doesn't need to happen.

Jason 36:11

Yeah, and like going to the gym, nah. Yeah. I think the last time I went to the gym, somebody used me as a weight.

Owen 36:18

Yeah, you know, so yeah, but um did ping pong come from any other racket sports like tennis or no, just straight into yeah, nuts.

Jason 36:27

No, just yeah, ping pong. I did try tennis and I soon discovered that ping pong. You have to run too much running in tennis. Yeah, but yeah, but uh uh so that's what I do now. That's kind of it. Taking up a bit of golf, but even after playing golf for 20 years, I'm still absolutely shite.

Jimmy 36:48

Me and golf just have a relationship, and it's not a good one. Um I think the only time I'll really play golf now is if it's an Ambrose like charity thing or something like that, because I've got three good shots in me in 18 holes. That's it, three good shots, and I'm and and when they're good, they're good. But I got three good shots, and that's it.

Owen 37:10

So I've I've persevered with it a little bit, and I've been playing for like maybe two years now. Recently became a member at a local club, got a handicap, and I probably would have been two or three months ago. I started playing comp on a Saturday. Yeah, um, it's the fucking best, it's so good, it's so much fun. I'm I'm crap, like I'm not a good golfer. I'll never like be a great golfer, but I don't know, I'm at the point where like maybe one shot every hole feels like I'm fucking Tiger Woods. Yeah, like you know what I mean? Like every other shot is like, ah yeah, that's that's kind of crap, yeah. But there's one shot every hole that I'm like that's what I wanted to do, and fuck that felt good.

Jason 37:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Owen 37:51

And it's also um I can see why I can see why it's like an oldie sport and like a retiree sport, especially in like the comp like you know, club world, because it's like everyone's having a waddle around, having a good yarn, everyone knows each other. The it's some of the best banter I think I've ever heard out of some old boys. The first time I went out there, I was just like it was like a beautiful winter's day, and I was like, I get why people do this all the time, it's so nice, like so much fun.

Jimmy 38:22

What's the best thing you've heard on the golf course, Alan?

Owen 38:25

Oh, I'm um oh a good one happened the other day. Oh with I we play with sort of like a set group of four, and it's my mate uh Dom, my other mate Brad, and Brad's old man who is in his 60s, and he's a mad uh North Sydney Bears supporter. He's got Yarns out the wazoo, and he's the worst golfer in the group. He's so shit. Um, but he's great value. And the other day we were on the T-Box and he swings, and it made that, you know, like pure golf connection sound where he just sounded like he got the ping right in the middle, and he goes, ping, and he looks up and he's looking, he goes, Where is it? And he's fucking middled the T, like 50 metres down the fairway, and the ball has dropped straight down and has not gone anywhere.

Jimmy 39:14

That was the best. Because he thought he smoked it at the T. Yeah, it was unreal. One of my best shots of golf is I off the T hit it, just went straight, hit one of the rocks just like five metres to the side, about 10 metres in front of us, and just went straight up. And we've all looked up and we all doing the bolt, yeah.

Jason 39:38

Yeah, I've been there through all of that. Yeah, I I you know, like the yeah, I mean it's it's golf, it's it it's a very frustrating sport, and um, and you know, you can play for uh 20 years or more. Like I I picked it up when I was in high school, so you know, like and I'm still shite.

Owen 39:56

You got a hole in one?

Jason 39:58

Not yet, not yet, yeah. Damn close, but not not yet.

Owen 40:02

Yeah. We um yeah, one of our mates, we every year we take part in the longest day, which is like a cancer council fundraiser. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You play 72 holes of golf. Wow. Uh yeah, and the first year that we did it, we did it up at um Mangrove Mountain golf course, and our first trip around at Mangrove, there's a part of the golf course where it gets kind of congested for lack of a better word. Like a lot of holes kind of come together. There's a par five that comes down, and there's a green, and then there's kind of two par threes right near each other, and then there's another T-box for a par five that goes back up the hill. So there's kind of a big group of us all around together. And one of my mates, it was Dom, same guy that I play with now. He steps up to the par three, hits this ball, and kind of I looked over from another T-box, and then everyone goes, Oh, oh, oh my god! And he got a fucking hole in one. Yeah, it was nuts. It was it was uh it was nuts. And his it we're playing on a on a cancer council day, and his mum had passed away from cancer that year, and he was playing with a pink ribbon ball, and it was just it was goosebump stuff, yeah. Super special, that's weird, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason 41:15

But yeah, so I I do golf, ping pong, uh, I'm married, I have two kids, I now have a grandkid, and you know, so it keeps me busy, it's all all good. But yeah.

Jimmy 41:28

Yeah, nice. Um, so where is where's is there anything new happening or coming up with the academy? I know when I parked today, I got to see the new little shed that we've mentioned in the past. Is that connected with anything?

Owen 41:46

Like, is there events or something that happened through you mean the shed that's always been there? Well, that's always been on the property, yeah. It's got a new look of paint. Yeah, it looks great. Um yeah, that's gonna be part of the live sound stuff. Um, so we're gonna use it for um bigger live sound setups because at the moment the way that we're running the live sound units is that they start up here and on the deck with kind of basic, like you know, uh singer, songwriter, acoustic guitar, vocal mic setups or like DJ deck setups, and then they kind of extend. And uh Tristan, who teaches live sound here, he runs front of house at Drifter's Wharf. Um so they do some lessons out of there, which are the bigger setups where they're looking at bigger PAs doing full band setups down there. Um so now we're gonna mix in um the shed as well as part of that, which would be interesting.

Jimmy 42:42

Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah.

Owen 42:44

And we've also been looking at um collaborating with some higher ed partners as well, which um Jace has been been involved in with us. So yeah, looking at doing some some uh higher ed teachings and and partnerships with some some unis and stuff as well, which will be fun.

Jason 43:03

Yeah, that's a that's a really I think that's a really great space because you can take some of that sort of Grove mentality and bring it into the higher education world. And I think that's really that'll be a really interesting thing. Yeah, interesting thing to kind of get involved in and and yeah, just that some of the practical stuff. So you're not having to do like Western art music necessarily. Yeah, yeah, and communications, yeah, yeah, whatever.

Owen 43:31

Yeah, my one was yeah, collaboration was just what the unit was called. And it was just it was so haphazard. It was like there was two audio students in a group, two animation, two film, two like contemporary performance students, and I feel like the brief was like it was like make a multimedia project. Yeah, and that that was it. That that that was the guidelines. It sounds great in theory.

Jason 43:58

Sounds great in theory. But on a practical level, I think I think also too, you know, like a lot of these degrees are also quite long, you know, like they're three years or more. And I don't know, just with today, things happen in people's lives. So for something to be uninterrupted for four years while you do a degree, seems to me quite impossible. You know, so there's always something going on. So a lot of people as a and as a consequence, you don't have people finishing degrees. So this is a little shorter. So at Grove, you can you know leave after a year with a diploma, or you can leave after two years with an advanced diploma. So you just pick your spot, and that seems a much more achievable thing to do, you know, and so as a consequence, you don't get as much dropout and you do see your course all the way through. If it was three or four years, that might be a bit of a challenge.

Jimmy 44:58

Yeah, I remember when I first ate TAFE as you know, doing my uh uh electrical um training at TAFE there, and the TAFE teacher said, Look around, I think there was 30 kids in the classroom or something. He's like, Look around, there'll be five of you left. Yeah, that's it.

Owen 45:10

Yeah, my degree was only two years, and I think we started with a cohort of uh 80 maybe, and it was I I think it went down to like 20. Yeah, lots of them dropped off like pretty much straight away, and then a bunch after the first year, and then a bunch that were kind of hanging on and then just dribbled off as well.

Jimmy 45:32

And so what's your conversion rate here? How many like what's it look like?

Owen 45:36

Uh it's pretty high. I think officially on the training New South Wales website, it's like 80 something percent, which is astounding. Yeah, of course.

Jason 45:45

It's astounding, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. And I I think that that comes again because there's no real fluff units, it's all like usable and you know, and it's just a a more realistic chunk to study, you know. So um, yeah, so it that's really been really great. Yeah, and so you know you'll that for most of the part you'll see these students, and again, it uh still after even during a year, things happen to students, and you know, yeah, and and the great thing again, Grove is super flexible about that, you know. So if there's just something something's happened in your life and you can't get an assessment due, or there's always support mechanisms here, and you know, so there's a lot of flexibility where that flexibility does not exist so much in the higher ed world, you know.

Owen 46:33

I I feel like I'm bagging out my uh uni experience a fair bit, but on that flexibility thing, I remember I started working here while I was still studying, so I was finishing my first year of study, and it was around the December like Christmassy sort of period that I got my first assisting gig at the studio. And where I studied, they had this pretty silly system where to submit studio assessment tasks, just to submit a PTX file, just a Pro Tools file, which is only like a couple of meg, like it's nothing, uh, you had to submit it on the studio computer at the university, which was just weird and dumb. Uh so I sent an email and I said, uh, I sent it to like I think my lecturer for the unit. I also had like the head of audio in there, and I was like, Look, I've just gotten this gig at the Grove Studios, I'm assisting on this session, name dropped the band because it was like a big Aussie band, and um I was like, I can't make it in to submit this assessment task in person. Uh, I'm happy to provide a Dropbox, Google Drive link, whatever, it's done, all you need's PTS. I'm happy to provide all the information, I just can't physically submit it on that particular computer you need me to submit it on. And I got an email back that was like, hi, Owen, unfortunately, work is no excuse for not submitting an assessment task. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding?

Jason 47:53

Oh, that's like it was nuts. Yeah, that that that is crazy, and you know, but you know, like having said that, you know, I've spent most of my working life in a higher ed kind of thing, and there's definitely good points about it, you know, because there is generally um, you know, that the students I enjoy working in a higher ed thing because the students are paying big money to go there, and as a consequence, when they're like you're sure you'll get your dropout, but the ones that stay are like super committed, and that that's really good, you know, and I think that's kind of a useful thing to know, and yeah, as and as a result, you know, you end up being able to kind of like nurture them a lot along the way too. So so I'm excited about you know having that the best of both worlds where you're having the higher ed thing in combination with something like Grove.

Owen 48:47

Yeah. I mean the benefit for me, the higher ed thing, the only thing that I I mean, I feel like we still give our students a very decent crack at it anyway, is like I the studios were open until midnight seven days a week, I think. And I was commuting from the coast down to Sydney, so I would be there from like 8 a.m. till midnight on the days that I were there. And I mean we keep the studio the students uh sorry, the studios open here till about eight anyway. So the students had plenty of time after class and Saturdays, Sundays as well. But yeah, because I was keen as mustard, I was just there, and I feel like you know, I I still have a hex death that keeps me awake at night. But when I think about how much time I spent in the studio while I was studying, I definitely like abused the joint. Yeah, in that regard.

Jason 49:32

I think that is the big secret. That's the big secret for doing all of these courses that actually, no matter what the cost, right? Sure, you'll get your classes and everything like that, but it's the students that kind of like abuse the system by like in a way just using the studios as much as possible. Suddenly that 50 grand is not that expensive because you you know you've been in that those kind of studios for a long time, and you get that experience. So that in a way is really great. But here you can do it at Grove for far, far less than 50 grand. So, you know, it's um uh so that is the big, I think, the big secret that I you know always really want students to do. My lessons will be the same, you know, the course is basically the same. Where you're gonna get the best value for money is by using the practical facilities here and just like annoy everybody by just booking it, you know. Yeah, that's the best way. So well led you to teaching. Um so I I actually uh back in 1989 when not it well, I well before Pro Tools existed, you know. So um I I wanted to learn about sound engineering, so I went to a school um and did a a course for a year. And um at one point um uh I happened to be like at a at a convention, I think, or exhibition with the owner of this school, right? And I so kind of said to him, Ah, I hear you're opening a school in Amsterdam, and I'm Dutch. So um, and he goes, Oh yes, I yes, I'm opening a school in Amsterdam, and I said, uh, cool, I speak Dutch. And so, and all my family live there, so so I actually ended up getting it literally the just from that conversation, just you know, we're sitting in an exhibition booth, yeah, and I got the job pretty much to go to Amsterdam. Um, I I in the end I didn't end up going there because I I had an Australian wife that didn't speak Dutch and doesn't have family in Holland. So, you know, I I ended up staying in Sydney, but a job at the at uh Sydney kind of came up, and I while I was still a student, I was teaching other students.

Jimmy 51:55

Oh, cool.

Jason 51:56

Like who had just started the course. I had just overachiever. I was keen, you know, like and also again, you know, like the thing I I and this is gonna sound really nerdy, but when I went to look at the which course I was going to do, I asked them about textbooks. I said, which textbooks do you have? You know, blah, blah. And he goes, ah, this textbook. So before I did the course, I said, Okay, I'm gonna get there's much value for money out of this course so I can. So I stupidly summarized the entire textbook before I did the course. So modern modern recording techniques. I summarized the whole thing right before I did the course. So basically, when I actually started the course, I had all the theory in my head, I just had no practical experience at all. So I yeah, so as a as so by way of that, I kind of like was quite a bit ahead of most students. And back in 1989, there was no such thing as like home studios and stuff like that where you can learn that kind of stuff. So I had the theory, but I had no practical. So that's kind of how I ended up, I guess, teaching because I kind of knew quite a lot of it already. So yeah. And then I yeah, I just kind of in the end, I was um I was a teacher, but I I I think I just hung around the school the most and ended up managing the school, and then I ended up managing other schools and you know, and then went to the Middle East and did some schools over there and Asia and so on and so forth, and then came back. So yeah, I've been around. Cool.

Jimmy 53:31

That sounds awesome. Well, I've had a good chat today. Uh have you got any questions for Jason you can add in? I know you you know look at things a little bit differently here than I do.

Jason 53:41

Um you've heard all these stories before.

Owen 53:47

Yeah, I've heard lots of the Jason Young's. I mean, I love them all.

Jimmy 53:49

Um, but you know, we're gonna let other people hear this.

Owen 53:53

In setting up schools uh internationally, what were the challenges that I suppose are unique to international education or unique to the you know those specific locations, whether it's the Middle East or Asia?

Jason 54:07

Yeah, yeah. Well, so I so I set up a school in Dubai and it was like the first creative college in the Middle East. So it was like a pretty huge deal. So um, so I think the main challenges is that like in those that that era, yeah, education was about accountancy and about you know commerce and business and stuff like that. So to have a creative media college was definitely a challenge, and like as as a formidable career path, you know, so so that was a challenge, definitely cultural challenges. So, you know, um in Dubai there's um 80% of people who live in that that area are expats, so you and 20% local. So that was kind of also what our school was about, like loads of expats and 20% local who all had kind of different cultural views, and and that was kind of also a challenge, and then you know, just the usual funding because you know when you set up a school, you don't throw everything at it, you just see how it goes, and then so just trying to get just get the funding and and so on and so forth. But great, love the experience, love the fact that I didn't see rain for like yeah, that's nuts 333 days of the year. It was awesome.

Owen 55:26

Yeah, were you um were you playing ping pong at that time that you were abroad? Did you were you tested overseas a bit more than you are here?

Jason 55:34

Well, see the where my where my ping pong really, really kicked off for me was when I was actually playing the my boss.

Owen 55:42

Nice so you know who I'm referring to, right?

Jason 55:45

So um, yeah, and he would just say, ah mug, come and play some ping pong. I've got marketing work. No, no, you play ping pong now. Awesome. So so yeah, so my ping pong was tested, Jeff, definitely through those years. Uh, but at Dubai no one was there to play ping pong with me. So he's died somewhat, yeah. Just to get to have the had it flicked up on it and say that the forest gun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um but yeah, I you know, I think yeah, I I think home studios too uh are something that's changed over the years as well. And you know, um one of the story that I have about that is that um so I'm my wife is a freelance writer, which is like hilarious because she requires complete silence to do her work. I'm a freelance sound engineer, I don't know silence. You need noise, yeah. So I need noise. So often our worlds would clash, especially when I was not working full-time, I became a freelancer. So suddenly I was at home a lot more and making a shitload more noise. So in the end, I had to um I was kind of banished to the backyard to build my own home studio, which was kind of also a fun experience, you know. Um, and yeah, that was I think one of the one of the new things I learned about, you know, because I think my building experience prior to building my home studio was IKEA furniture.

Jimmy 57:13

For sure.

Jason 57:13

Yeah, so I had my next door neighbor who is was 80 years old, and um so he but he was an ex-builder, so I said, Hey, I've got a great project. Wanna come and build a home studio? And he goes, Oh yes, sure, no problems. And so it was kind of like the blind leading the blind, yeah. So he he could hardly move, and he was 80 or 80, actually 84, like crazy old, yeah, which was great, but he loved it, and and we just had a great time, and it was neighborly love and all that kind of shit. So, yeah, it was cool.

Jimmy 57:46

Yeah, what was your um biggest learning curve when building a home studio?

Jason 57:55

It to me, it was all a massive learning curve. Uh, I kind of felt that every step of the way, like from the framing, well, it like even just making the ground flat and putting footings down, like everything was a challenge for me. Everything, like the floor, the double jip rock on the walls, and then my my friend the builder decided he wanted curved walls as well, so he hit so that had to happen. So doing all of that kind of stuff too, which was it was just yeah, it was all a great experience. I learned just so much, just measuring shit. I just I didn't realize until I started building a home studio how shit I am at a tape measure, measure twice, cut once, right? That's right. Yeah, that was the rule, and I certainly paid for that quite a bit.

Jimmy 58:47

But yeah. And is it a is it a never-ending build, the old home studio, or did you set yours up exactly how you wanted it?

Jason 58:54

It's pretty much exactly how I wanted it because I only really wanted to do it once. Um, and but the only thing now I have realized that I'm now literally putting trying to sort of get around or finish, is it my studio gets quite hot. And I didn't think this would be an issue because I live in the Blue Mountains where hot is just not in the vocabulary, but my studio some seems to be like the hottest place in Katsumba. So um it's a good marketing slide. Want to stay warm? Come on to my studio, yeah.

Jimmy 59:29

Hottest studio in Katsumba.

Jason 59:30

That's right, yeah, yeah. Cold climate, hot studio, something like that.

Owen 59:34

Yeah, you get lots of rappers, though, I think that might be a lot of people.

Jason 59:36

Yeah, possibly, yeah, yeah. Um, so the final build is actually putting air conditioning in. Okay, yeah, yeah. And I'd need an electrician. Expensive percent energy. There we go, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so that's it. But other than that, I think it's pretty good. It's just more about getting gear in. And obviously, I'd not I want a bigger space, but there's only so much backyard I've got. So, yeah, yeah.

Owen 1:00:01

Are you how's your gear um collection slash hunt slash rotation of things in the studio? Are you finding you've got everything patched in at the moment, or are there bits coming in and constantly working at that bit too?

Jason 1:00:15

Yeah, so um, yeah, so like I I have an analogue tape machine, so reel-to-reel eight-track thing, and I want to be able to use it more, but just patching it in is just is it still that Fostax? Yeah, it is, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's right, it's all great little thing, you know, and it's you know, good fun. Uh, but I never hardly use it because of the fact that actually to patch it all in and get it all happening is a pain. So I want to kind of improve that area of kind of like patching stuff. Um, I've learned very quite a few years ago is that I I never sell audio gear. Very never sell it. Because to me, I did it once and I've then regretted all these things that I you know sold at a garage sale. But geez, I geez, I wanted that. Yeah, so I don't sell anything anymore. If it makes a noise, I'm keeping it. Yeah, even if it doesn't work, I'm still keeping it.

Owen 1:01:06

I've actually learnt to ignore Scott when he goes, Can we sell this? I go, Yeah, because it's happened so many times now. Like it happened two weeks ago. He he and Andy texted me and said, Hey, have we still got that dangerous summing mixer? It'll be great for this. And I was like, nah, we sold it. It's like it's the it happened, it's happened with like interfaces that we didn't think we needed anymore, and we sold, and then we're like, fuck, really could use that interface right now.

Jason 1:01:32

Totally, yeah, yeah. Rule number one, never sell it. It makes a noise, you're not selling it. And yeah, and you know, it's what's really good is that a lot of that gear, because I've like got old synths from the 80s and effects units from the 80s, and that's all kind of like I don't I wouldn't say a resurgence, but people are interested in that kind of stuff, you know, and and it looks good in a rack, whatever, you know. So um, so I think yeah, just having access to all of that is yeah, super useful. So yeah, so I just I'm on a process of like getting it fixed by our mate, yeah. And um, and yeah, just just putting it in the rack and using it wherever I can, you know.

Owen 1:02:12

So you also never know when gear like that is going to find value as well. Like at the moment, there's a producer called McGee who has been making lots of their own great music, but recently worked on Justin Bieber's album, and they're famous for this like great guitar tone, which comes from plugging their guitar into a Tazcam Porter Studio for the 424 one. Um and it's like it's this old bit of gear that like five years ago was worth like a hundred bucks. Now they're selling for like eight hundred bucks because everyone's chasing this bloke's guitar tone, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And uh yeah, so it's like I've got one similar sitting over there that I've someone just gave to us for free at an open day a couple of weeks ago, and I got fixed, and sounds great. And I'm not gonna sell it because it's great, yeah.

Jason 1:02:59

Yeah, and that is the thing, you know, like I've got um I've got a Roland Tower 707 drum machine. Like, I wish I'd kept the eight I had an 808. That would have been perfect because that would that was worth thousands now, which back then you could pick up for a couple hundred bucks, and and you know, so I'm just waiting for my Korg A3 or my SBX90 to I reckon it'll be um the DP4, the Equasonic DP4 and A4. I've got one of those too, yeah, yeah. So that was one of the items that I sold when I went for when I was in Byron, and uh and I thought I really want that back. So I found another one and got it cheap. Yeah, I'm completely lost. Oh, can we get a new siren or something?

Jimmy 1:03:42

Yeah, you've got to talk about it. We can talk about energy. I know it's awesome, it's awesome, it's awesome. I know that's look this is why part of my journey is learning about all this stuff. I'm hope hopefully one day I listen back to this episode and I'm like, I know what they're talking about.

Jason 1:03:57

That is, yeah, yeah. I know we did nerd out someone.

Owen 1:03:59

I all I I think that's that conversations like that are so funny to me, especially when there's someone who doesn't know the random collections of fucking letters and numbers that we're saying. Like, I I'll say it, I'll, you know, students will come up to me and they'll be like, oh, and I've I'm recording drums for the first time, like what mic should I use? And I'll just start being like AKG D12, you know, SM57, 414s, blah blah blah. And I'm just saying numbers and letters and they just glaze over and they just go, oh, oh, oh. And I was like, all right, let's get them all out. You'll learn all the random combinations of shit that'll just stain your brain.

Jimmy 1:04:34

Oh, look, I there's stuff that I know at work that I shouldn't need to know, really. That you know, what screw to use on what wall and all that kind of shit. Yeah, that comes naturally to me, you know.

Jason 1:04:45

It's yeah, yeah, it happens in all worlds, you know. It's just the jargon of that world.

Owen 1:04:49

Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, I realize my my dad was exactly the same as me one day when we my dad is a locksmith by trade, and we'd we were walking uh through like an office building, and he was like, That's a Lockwood 604127, and like another locksmith van drove past us and had like a particular safe keypad, and he was like, That's a blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, Alright, we are the you I am your son. I was like, it makes sense.

Jason 1:05:15

Yeah. So I had never pictured that locks would kind of have a model number and I and like everything has a model number. I know I should I should have just yeah, it makes sense that it does, but you know, like just didn't even think about it. And like, do some locks have like a collector's items or something?

Owen 1:05:30

Oh yeah, no, oh dude, he's dad's come up here and done some work just like on like he'd helped put the big door in in the barn and done other you know bits and bobs around the place. And uh apparently there's Scott has this big ring of keys because before Scott bought the place, every door had a different key, and Gary had this like weird door fetish apparently. So, like some of the the locks on like the storeroom door here, the store. Studio One Doors, they're all these like antiquey Australian made locks. And yet dad walked up to the Studio One Doors. He's like, oh wow, we haven't seen one of these before. Fuck. And I was like, this is nuts.

Jason 1:06:12

Ah, it's out there.

Owen 1:06:13

Yeah, it's properly out there. It makes sense, but like But it's like, you know, we walk into the studio and see, you know, a nice M M49 or a fucking 1176 blue face blue stripe, and it's like, oh wow.

Jason 1:06:26

Yeah. When it all yeah, to most people's eyes, that just looks the same. Cool. So thanks for coming in. Absolutely, Matt. Had a great time. We had it, we should have had the beers out. We should do that. We absolutely should do that. We want to be back for a rerun of that.

Owen 1:06:45

Yeah, we'll have to lock down a beer sponsor. Um any any brewers want to put it in.

Jason 1:06:50

Hey, mountain culture, mate.

Owen 1:06:52

Mountain culture could be great.

Jason 1:06:53

Yeah.

Owen 1:06:54

From one man to another. From blue to mangrove.

Jimmy 1:06:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the way we like to finish out the podcast is I'll get you to recommend me a song. Um I know it's a big one. But what am I gonna listen to? Alright.

Jason 1:07:10

Um, so a song that I think is like a huge amount of kind of feel change everything for me is um So Bjork. So she used to be in another band prior to her being B York, which is called the Sugar Cues. And um they produced this awesome song called Birthday. And it's got the best bass line, it's like full line, like chorus bass, so great. And her voice like even to this day I listen to it, it's in Shield on the spine. It's an amazing song. It's a birthday by the sugar cubes. That would be uh sort of a slightly left feel, but yeah. I didn't want to say radio. I like radio hint too. Any radio hint right could also be there. But birthday by the sugar cubes. Awesome. Thank you. No worries, Matt. Awesome. Thank you for having me. Thanks for stuff. Thank you.

the Sugarcubes 1:08:11

Cheers house over the scrapples and measures with her fingers and her mouse. She spirit so that swims on a street spiders in the game. Collect spines in the jail spice and system, she lives next door. There is a little freckles she's got she's practice. She's painting cute food and glues them together. They saw the grave. It glided down the sky.