Scott Horscroft

Join me as to talk to Scott Horscroft, owner of the The Grove Studios and The Grove Studios Academy, a multi ARIA award winning record producer, audio engineer and A&R for Island records. 

We get into the history of the studio, the building of the Academy, experimentation and lots of projects he has worked on though his career.

Song credits                                                                                                                        Say I Love You                                                                                                                    Preformed by: Renee Geyer                                                                                       Written by: Eddy Grant                                                                                          Produced by: -                                                                                                              Source: WM Australia

Thieving Bird Pt,1/Strange Behaviour/Those Thieving Birds Pt, 2                  Preformed by: Silverchair                                                                                           Written by: Daniel Johns                                                                                       Produced by: Daniel Johns, Nick Launey                                                                             Source: Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Music Publishing

Playlist of songs or bands mentioned in this episode https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1lYjLlRCHQjDPbqmLfRM2m?si=2koSAV86S3G7MAr2OWx70Q 

welcome to Studio 2 https://www.instagram.com/welcometo_studio2?igsh=OXJyOGcxMTJveHhj&utm_source=qr

Scott Horscroft https://www.instagram.com/welcometo_studio2?igsh=OXJyOGcxM

Transcript

Jimmy 0:04

You know what this is the whole thing about this podcast, it doesn't have to be all about music, from it. Like it can be about anything. I'd rather talk about something else. Too bad.

Scott 0:16

It would all lead back to what we do best.

Jimmy 0:21

So what what drew you to the grove, Scott? I mean, you essentially bought the place in 2013, we know that. But what what what drew you here? Like what what made it an easy decision?

Scott 0:38

So it's an uncanny um well, maybe not uncanny, but it's an interesting um little journey that I had a studio in Sydney called Big Jesus Burger, and we operated that for 10 years. That's where I sort of made my start in the music industry. Um made a lot of great records there, really busy, really sort of culturally significant studio. And um it got to a point where um I had started working in AR for EMI records, and I was trying to do both, trying to keep the studio afloat. My business partner who um had had moved to Tassie, he'd done a lot of awesome records there, so it was kind of left in my hands to um keep the the place rolling. It was a bit too much, so we decided to shut that down, and I'd lived and breathed in Surrey Hills for over a decade and wanted a bit of a scene change. Um I'd been living on a a 54-foot yacht in in Northbridge um and um you know sleeping at the studio, just wanted to kind of buy some some land, so actually bought um seven acres down at Lower Mangrove, like in the middle of nowhere. Um and you know, was commuting from Lower Mangrove to Sydney and just fell back in love with you know r the rural bush um location and all the gear that I had from from BJB studios I set up at this place. So and people were coming down to make records, like you know, some of my you know um some of my um collaborators like Daniel and Luke and Empire, where they all they all came down to this little place in the middle of nowhere. Um and so I'd already made this mental shift that having a a space out of Sydney on Acreage, um somewhere where people could come and stay and really sort of get away from it all and focus on making music was was the what what I wanted to do. And then within the year of being there, I got a phone call um from the owners of the Grove saying that they um wanted to sell. Um so you know there was no I'd already made uh a couple of records up here um with um Little Red and a couple of other I worked with Chris Collins in his great producer Chris Collins in his band. And um yeah, there was no second guessing. It was just like um I'm I'm I'm in and I remember I remember the the yeah that we led up to the auction and Alison Wonderland, incredible electronic artist, was at um my place down in Lower Mangrove at the time, and I said, Look, I'm I'm off to a I'm off to an auction. I'll I'll see you back soon and came back and just absolutely over the moon. Um so you know, like I think that was the sort of physicality of the time just before, but like you know, the road to um developing the grove to what it is now, I think that's a kind of lifelong journey to understand um you know, building the team around the grove um and building the school around the grove. I think that sort of stems back to my mum being um you know a teacher and then moving into sort of curriculum advisor and and you know teaching teachers so that that side of things has always been um in my life, my dad being an aircraft engineer and you know always being into tinkering and and so on. So like you know, loving music, studying art, being you know, it's all came to to having a great understanding of what artists need, and I think that's what we do really well at the Grove is you know supply an incredible facility where people get to um explore and experiment and lose reality and just make awesome art.

Jimmy 4:55

That's amazing because I mean the place itself has such a has such a rich history, doesn't it? It's you know long, it's vibrant, it's it's been here a long time. Do you do you want to talk about that at all?

Scott 5:05

Yeah, so I think it goes back um you know 40,000 years really, I think what more. I mean I'm I'm not sure, but the there's just beautiful um First Nations carvings and and artwork all over the mountain um on the property and in the surrounding Strickland Forest. Uh and it's just got this insane energy um when you when you go walking and um and and you know maybe just by coincidence this sort of creative space was built by Gary Gary Beers from in Excess. Um might have thought the same thing. Maybe he did, I'm not sure, but it's uh I mean he must have because you know he of course was a incredible musician and you know producer, he built this studio initially that we're in here, studio two, this was his main main studio. Um and then uh through people coming up to work with him and other producers in this space here, he saw an incredible opportunity and and built Studio One in in 2000. Uh and then yeah, you know, pre my time there was just countless incredible records made up here from Silver Chair, Something for Kate, um uh, you know, just yeah, album after album, and then um it moved um moved owners, and then yeah, so I think it's probably about uh 15 years after Gary built 13 years after Gary built Studio One that I I took it over.

Jimmy 6:45

Yeah, nice. So um you mentioned the Academy. Um has a special place in your heart, I dare say. It's something you've built here. I was um you know very lucky to be a part of the the building of of the barn for for where the academy is now. Um you know what's where where does where does the academy take someone when they come here to the academy? What does what does that allow allow them to achieve?

Scott 7:12

I think the you know it works on a number of levels. I reckon that one one big thing that the Grove Studios Academy offers is opportunities in a for for the youth of the Central Coast, you know. I don't think there's a hell hell of a lot of opportunities for creative people to pursue um their dreams as a musician, songwriter, producer, life sound engineer, film um, you know, uh composer. Um so you know, I'd we definitely see that. We see these young um inspired but maybe confused um students arriving and then sort of finding their place in in a small you know cohort, a small community. And then that leads them on to um you know having or getting to rub shoulders with people who um have built a career or build a life around making art and making music. So they get see that and they're inspired to go and do it themselves. You know, they also get a lot of technical skills to to go on and better what they want to do, um, whether it be songwriting or engineering, producing. Um, and you know, they work over a year to get a diploma and then go into a second year as an advanced diploma. But um, you know, I I still think personally the the thing that I love seeing is just their personal growth in creativity and the collaborations that they form within the group of people that they're going through the year with. Um I mean you can't really go to a gig on the Central Coast without seeing a part of that cohort all hanging out together or playing in bands together or um, you know, just you know, developing that that little small piece of culture that uh sharing up they have, yeah, exactly.

Jimmy 9:09

So um well, two words there you mentioned in uh in that little part was uh producer and engineer, and I mean the the two of your big titles, right? Um explain to me, what does a producer do? Like why why why do I need a producer? Why can't I just do it all myself?

Scott 9:28

Well, you can. And a lot of people do, and a lot of a lot of you know, I think that the there's a lot of different types of producers. Um there's there's someone who you know produces their own music, they you know, whether it be programming or recording or um you know they're they're they're making their own music in their own space, and then there's um, you know, I guess producers who who um you know and this is this is what I love about it, so they're like you know, kind of like a collaborator. They're um, you know, for me, sort of the engineering side and the production side are go hand in hand where um you're looking for artists that you um are inspired by and you feel like you can give to the project, um, and then you're I guess becoming a second set of ears and a uh or a part of the band or or you know a strong part of the collaboration and and um you know guiding the project and just um developing something together that that um that um you know you bouncing off each other and you're you're searching for for bet the best results. Um whether it be um you know working through the process with them on on what's the journey of the song to what's the arrangement, what are the parts, what are the sounds, what are the lyrics, you know, you're you're getting involved in the writing, but also um I guess you know you're at the helm of the development of the project in the studio. You're um you know pulling pulling the sounds and and and I guess just being extremely sensitive to the needs of the artist and the vision that the artist has and that you've developed with them and guiding it down that that path.

Jimmy 11:32

I suppose it's that fine line between um seeing somebody's creativity and uh encouraging it as opposed to kind of directing it, if that makes sense, is that um how how do you how do you kind of deal with that?

Scott 11:48

Well it's a it's it goes hand in hand. I mean I think you know there there is I've I have heard that term being said that like in music a producer is is is more like a director in film. So you you know you you are guiding it, you are directing, you're you know I think you know there's different types of producers that you know some some sort of dictate how they want it to go and and push it that way and um are quite sort of um headstrong about exactly where they think it should go and push it that way. Um, you know, for me it's always been about a collaboration and trying to find where the magic sits within everyone's vision and you know f finding that line and experiment experimenting until it just feels right. Um yeah. And you know, like I think um you know the studio itself comes into play with for me with that a lot. It's like the studio itself is a is an instrument, um it's an inv environment for collaboration and creativity and and you're playing the space, playing the room, playing with the the feel and and the setting and and the space that you you create um has a has a big role in that. Um not just the sort of technical side but um you know the emotional side and just yeah, how how it all um the timeline of of production through through the space.

Jimmy 13:27

So yeah, it's and and so you did say that um you know production and engineering go go hand in hand, but where where do they separate? Where where does being a sound engineer um maybe you might change your mind about something as opposed to being a producer?

Scott 13:46

Um I guess for I mean I can as I said initially there's there's a there's a lot of different types of producers. Some producers don't engineer at all, some engineers don't produce.

Jimmy 14:00

So oh no, yeah, no, 100% this too. I'm I'm asking you for you personally, where does it where does it where does it differ? Like where have you maybe give me an example where you've been in there and you you know you I'm I'm the producer and all of a sudden the sound engineer kicks in and says no.

Scott 14:15

It's constant, it's it's actually a constant battle because um, you know, if you've got um say 60 microphones up um to record, you know, a big big band, um, you know, all the drums, bass, and everyone's playing live, your um, you know, your your mind is easily um there's a lot to to focus on just as an engineer in that space. So um, and you know, you might do a few runs where you're just focused on levels, sounds, um, you know, making sure that technically everything's working for you before you even get around to starting to think about what anyone's playing, okay, or what and what what the the song is. So you you you you know, you've only got so much focus within your your mind. So it does take um there is a bit of a process to making sure that technically as an engineer that everything's working and you've got the sounds that you want, and then start to dive into the parts and the songs. But you know, we do I I I spend a lot of time doing pre-production with an artist, so you get a lot of um you know the arrangements and what the song's about, where it's heading, the creative side of of the song and parts and playing and all of that stuff done before the day that you you are in recording. So um, yeah, it's just it's a it's about time and managing time and and um and and where your focus lies at the right time to get the the production right.

Jimmy 15:51

So I'm a band and I'm you know however I get in touch with you or I've been approached by you. When I rock up, what do I have anything ready? Do I have 20 songs ready and you're gonna well play me play me what you got? Nun, yep, yep, yep. Like how does it and I suppose it all works differently every time. I you know it's it's never a yeah well that's a question for later, but um you know what what what makes it what makes it fun, what makes it exciting?

Scott 16:23

Well usually as I said, like pre pre-production, usually people will make an inquiry or you know make contact and send demos. Um you know it the I I'd be crazy and the artist would be crazy just to rock up. Um and you know, we'd spend a whole day just listening to music in a in an expensive studio wasting time. So we get all of the songs selected, talk about arrangements, parts, pull the song apart before we get into the studio, yeah. So it's called pre-production.

Jimmy 17:01

So is that on the phone? Is that a zoom call? Is that what like it varies?

Scott 17:04

So like if it if m most of the time it's a it's an initially just like a catch-up, you know, going for a coffee, um, and then getting together in a in a smaller space, smaller studio, looking at the songs, um, whether it be some writings involved, like rewriting parts, pulling the song apart and and putting it back together, that can be done in a smaller space, uh like a little writing room or something like Studio 2. We do a lot of that in in this space. Um, and if you know, if it's a band, then you'll go into a rehearsal room and um you know, bash it out, like get everyone really comfortable with the parts and you know, write down to what's the drum feel that's going into the chorus, what beat are we playing here, what's the bass part feels, you know, how how is the vocalist hitting different sections? So you do as much preparation as you can before you get into the studio. Yep. Yeah, and then when you get in there, it's it's game on. Um, you know, there's still a lot of experimentation and things to find, but you you have a clear direction in in where you're going. Um, and then you know, and then it veer veers off and new things happen and stuff, but you you've got your head around what's in front of you before you before you get into the studio a lot of the time.

Jimmy 18:19

Yeah, cool. Yeah, um or you try. You try. So um let's I'd I'd like to touch back on the academy if we can for a bit. I know there's there's so much happening there, yeah. And I think it's uh it's it's just worth worth speaking about. I mean, I've actually had a had a look at at the diploma myself, to be honest with you. Um as as somebody who's trying to learn as much about music as I can. I think uh something called that course is just it looks absolutely amazing. So um as a as a as a student here, what what do I get to do? I get to sit at the computers. Am I in these studios? Am I am I playing around with the gear in here or do we just get to look at it?

Scott 19:09

No, no, it's pretty, but no, you do get to touch it. Um so um, I mean, Owen, do you want to just pull up the website for a sec? So um for everyone at home, we have Owen Butterworth, the um manager of the Grove and Grove Studios Academy here with us today.

Owen 19:30

And the only one with a face for a podcast.

Scott 19:35

Um so no, look the the what we set out to do was, I mean, where it can where the idea of the academy came from for for me was both my initial studio I had, all studios I've had, I've had interns coming in to get experience, work experience, um, intern programs, and then junior assistants that come and start, they've got an interest, they've got some skills, um, and then they start as a junior engineer, work themselves up to become the main engineer, um, the house engineer, and then um, you know, do lots of records with me, and and uh and then go on to become incredible engineers themselves. So seeing that process of being in the studio surrounded by other engineers um and and other artists, just the growth and and and um development into a professional um was something that I just kept seeing happen. And and I was like, well, it'd be great to be able to do that for for more people. Um and um when when we got the Grove, I mean it's just the perfect facility uh in terms of space and different spaces, um, and um and also a great working environment for students to be around. So I mean that was the initial idea. So then we became a official RTO um and developed a course and curriculum whereby students get like a really broad understanding of all the different facets of the music industry from live to you know recording their own music to engineering to working in a studio to radio, composing for for film and screen. Um and yes, so we've got a um a lab where they have uh little musical workstations, everyone gets one, so they've got their own computer and and keyboard, and that's where you're learning um, you know, the sort of learning pro tools and and how to operate a door, um and um you know developing your your your skills in in programming and editing and mixing and all of those things, but then you have access to this studios to studio. to um after hours and in like classes are delivered in here so but for those at home we're sitting in um you know in a big big open control room that can fit the whole class in um and there's a beautiful um analog Harrison console which everyone has access to to use and a and a um a lot of um outboard analog gear and you know state of the art pro tools and plugins and all of that stuff so it's a working studio that they have access to um and they record drums and and live bands and and you know they they're encouraged to just be in here experimenting and and booking time and bring bringing in clients and just starting to develop that um you know that sort of prof professional attitude about bringing clients in and starting to develop their practice. Yeah awesome they were in here right before you tonight okay yeah yeah one of them was in here with it was like his second session recording um this client that he's had coming back and he was wigging out but he did a great job he was like oh everything got in here nice and early made it all made it all perfect for the client to come in and then I was like you've got to be out by 7 30 and 7 15 he texted me was like I'm all done the studio was like beautifully impact up and I was like oh he's killing it he's getting it and you see them you see the students you know when they first start and for the first year they um you know there's a lot to get their head around but then by um um by the end of the advanced um diploma so they've they've been here for um over a year they're in their second year they're um we can't get them out I mean they're really developing that practice and they're here on weekends and they're they're they're they're doing a lot of great stuff so you know that's that's our intention is to build that sort of entrepreneurial ship that idea of developing yourself as as your own business and and and you know your skills as a producer and engineer or as an artist session musician um whatever whatever your your focus is you get to be in this space and and and develop that those skills and you you know you're surrounded by um you know the mentors so or the lecturers that we have um are all active professionals who who was doing their own work they're not just focused on teaching they're they're back and forths from their own careers and we have lots of guest lecturers coming in um and then you've got our staff who are all super busy around the property um making great records and then you've got uh Studio One which is just constantly booked with great great music so you know you you've you're you're a part of this um you're a part of this active business and active creative space I find that even when I just come up here to do electrical work the vibe's amazing you walk in and there's you know the students are everywhere walking around and you don't forget Jerry you got Jerry running around yeah Jerry and Chloe the dogs they're uh yeah I mean they're mad for security they're part of the part of the growing they are security especially if you look in zero so um uh experimentation you've mentioned that word a few times so obviously that's something that um you know you you push towards your students now I know you like a bit of experimentation yourself don't you you've made an album many many moons ago eight was it eight guitars yeah eight guitars I I I um when I was in high school I um yeah totally majored in in art in visual arts and left year 12 and went and did my honours degree at Sydney College do the arts in um conceptual art and uh for me that was at that time that was my life like I thought that that was going to be my lifelong career was being a conceptual artist it was all um installation art and um and and sound sound art so abstract music and avant-garde music and noise music um with with video and multi multiple speakers like surround sound you know immersive arts so yeah look I I mean you know I did a lot of sound experimentation and still feel like I I do I mean I think and when you know I guess in my twenties I was recording the Northern Lights and making noise music out of it or you know dressing fans up in tuxedos and creating fan choirs and and um or or creating big open tuning noise guitar works. And um you know I still all of that experience and all of that um that sort of love of of immersive music I still feel like I'm practicing that and exploring that with with even with with pop music or whatever it is. I'm still you know looking for a way to make something sound different and sound like nothing else that that has ever been made and and you know that's what excites me about um you know the artists that I love to work with are the people who are trying to break boundaries and try and do new things and um you know just trying to make a dent in in culture in a different way um through experimenting and and you know and that can come down to just the slightest thing even you know with a with a folk song or or whatever it is that's still trying to break down what's been done and do something new. Yeah it's uh I've been I've been going through this crazy journey over the last couple of weeks but I've always you know at any particular time over the last I guess 20 30 years if someone had asked me you know what one of my favourite artists was I'd always say you know the Beach Boys. Just because of that like journey that they went from from creating this like you know very pop surf cars very commercial initial songs that they became famous for but then they went off on this incredible journey you know led by Brian to making um pushing the boundaries of what pop music was and um experimenting with structure and and instrumentation and arrangements and um since Brian Wilson passed away in the last couple of weeks I've just dived heavily back into them back into that and and um just that wonderful world of of uh the you know the arrangements and orchestrations and the work that he did with Van Dyke Parks um it's just uh just amazing.

Jimmy 29:09

So I suppose um it's one thing music can do for you isn't it really uh well does many things but one one thing I suppose is invoke those emotions you know that uh obviously it's it's given you that that that feeling of first listening to the Beach Boys again yeah plus more I I dare say I was actually talking to Owen just before you came in um I've been haunted by a song this week so um really yeah well a dear friend of mine recently passed away and um on Sunday I was sitting there just had had a playlist on in the background a random playlist and uh a song came on by a UK kind of pop punk band called Play Dead believe it or not and the song's called Sean which is my mate's name and the lyrics to the song are pretty much just bloked down to a T and I'm thinking I've never heard this song before I've heard of the band before but the song had never been something that I'd I'd heard or associated with him and within a week of his passing this bang just hit me and you know it's it's amazing how how music can do that to you like I a week ago I probably wouldn't have thought about it the same way but it had my number yeah yeah it's uh it's it's it's a crazy thing.

Owen 30:29

Owen's got this up now haven't uh uh you're the the playing the playing dead track yeah I also on the Beach Boys while I get this up we Scott has been down a deep dark uh Beach Boys rabbit hole so much so that we were driving to Bunnings uh last week and the song Vegetables came on by the Beach Boys and I was just bamboozled how a band can do California girls and you know surf in USA but then also do I love my vegetables and put them in a brown bag in front of me I was just insanely confused um but yeah it was uh it was incredible another band we've spoken about before that I I suppose um fits that uh that category of constant experimentation was the Kinks I remember it was a few years ago and yet again it's not that I've never heard of the Kinks before but I was kind of I heard late l uh lola Lola came on the on the radio I love it and it resonated for some reason in a different in a different sense and when I got home I'm like I'm I've got to learn it so picked up the guitar put on lol I started playing them I'm all right we've got this what a fucking what a great fucking song and then and then I just started listening to the kinks and I'm like what a great band like I and there were so many songs that I'm like oh that's the kinks that's and because I just have that such that broad range you know from kind of one genre to the next you kind of forget that it's it's the same band like it's you know yeah it's it's it's it's a pretty cool thing um totally I mean Ray Davies uh a singer and main songwriter of the Kinks was um yeah huge influence on me I remember there was a video VHS cassette in our sort of VHS drawer underneath the TV was and it was like top of the pops or something like that like a re VHS recopy of a lot of the TV programs from when when my dad would have been young.

Scott 32:43

And um you know it was all these different bands Man for man and maybe the Trogs and and but then the the kinks um all day and all night was on there and it was um I remember I remember it blowing my mind. I must have been you know 13 or something just the sound of the guitars the energy um how they played it was it was like punk punk it was like early punk music like so simple and had this sort of aggressive feel to those those songs and those early albums. But yeah exactly the sort of same trajectory as the Beach Boys where they had these sort of early um simple pop structures and then experimented with um you know psych the psychedelic era which which then sent them off on a trajectory to to find more in music.

Jimmy 33:40

Alright simple pop structures that's a nice little nice little term you brought up for me so there's a a a a question I've got for you um and you know you can tell me to fuck off if you want but is is production an algorithm or an art?

Scott 33:57

Oh it's an art I mean there's I mean you hear a lot about this the algorithm you know the the uh well it's a bit of both maybe maybe it is a bit of both I mean there's patterns and there's um mathematics and there's structure and there's there's only so many ways you can play four chords right now I don't know about that if you you know like if you don't understand what the four chords are and you're listening to the music as someone who doesn't understand music then the possibilities are endless right with with how those four four four whatevers because you don't know what they are then they're irrelevant. So it's all about the dressing this the pace the style the it's so many variables in on top of those four chords that make I mean I'm being simplistic no I know what you mean but I'm you know just on that it's like you know how many songs have the same four chords that are completely completely different different emotional um journey that they go on I mean you know lyric style the artists themselves it's um yeah it is very so I mean I think um there are especially you know there are algorithms um to to so many facets of production um and there's also chaos and and um and um you know um things that uh you know pop out of nowhere that just come come from yeah maybe experimentation or chaos or or but maybe that is an algorithm. I mean we could go really deep now but um I'll just choose to just said it this one I'll just tell you to fuck off one of the one of my favourite musicians at the moment that I suppose plays with with that chaos is um Mark Rebo.

Jimmy 36:07

I mean the way Mark Rebo and ceramic dog kind of just go wild and then all of a sudden just lock back into like some kind of form of they're meant to be doing it is just blows my like it seems like some form of improvisation and structure all thrown together and like that that's something that's something that that does blow my mind I just get lost in it. What's the no way free jazz is this the right guy Mark Rebo yeah he looks older than that now though ceramic dog yeah Mark Rebo and his ceramic dog ceramic dog bowls that's I mean if Jerry needs a new bowl Scott that might be that's them on the right is it not yeah these guys yeah yeah right they're like a they're considered a bit of a jazz band um I suppose they're he's rock he he um collaborated a lot with Tom Waits okay sick what what draws you do you listen to a lot of this like jazz rock uh no not a not a lot to be honest it was um a a good friend of mine sent me a YouTube clip of theirs and you know as it is you listen to one song then you listen to a thousand um and I just kind of got I got I got lost in in his discography like uh everything from ceramic dog to some solo stuff he does a lot of stuff in um in movies a lot of scores um yeah I just he he but that clip of Mark Rebo and his ceramic dog that I saw about half an hour there's three or four songs on it um just say yeah the way they move from complete nutter like there's three musicians playing three completely different things and then who knows how but they all lock back in uh to some form of rhythm over and over again it just really blew my mind. Yeah I love it.

Owen 38:16

They look like I'm gonna have a listen but it looks like I'm imagining it's King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard meets the national is what I'm it's like it's dad's playing crazy music is what it looks like just looking at them.

Scott 38:28

Noise rock tree I love it. Something I may have missed yeah awesome so Scott we've spoken a bit about work and music but um what what drives you what what keeps you happy what work and music work and music boring um what do you know what what keeps me happy um you know I'm big on on well it is still related but you know the the the team here the space here um uh I guess it it it all sort of could fall under work for for some people but it's it's um it's more than work for me I think um you know with the academy the studios my production I've still do um a lot of work for Island Records um so you know it's it's those artists the developing artists it's the the the developing engineers and producers that that that are here at the studio um and uh and the and the space itself um you know maybe I'm a workaholic but no I mean my family is is huge I've got a a um 10-year-old and an eight year old Connie in and Hudson um who who are super active and riding motorbikes and playing sport and being awesome um my and my partner Annie who who um uh is amazing and supportive and rides horses and you know so we're all we're all really active and I guess you know that's that's that's really important keeps me super happy. Do the kids play around in here or um well when I say play around do they are they is it an interest of theirs or uh Hudson Connie plays piano and Hudson plays violin um so they're in into music um but you know I don't I don't um force do they understand what goes on in here like they totally they totally get it yeah no they absolutely they they get some facets of they're criminals for a good old fashioned knock and run as well every now and again which is hilarious because you'll be you're just you know working away and then you get a at the door and you're like oh who's that then you just hear from around the corner which is just the best I love it they yeah they used to dress up and and spot go spying and just try and sneak and look in at the studios. But like it must I mean it must be amazing um you know I don't I think about it from time to time but you know they live on a property where there's you know some some days there's like 40, 50 people around their house um and and I guess for the listeners it that might seem intrusive but it's not you know like there's it's very separated but um you know it it definitely would feel that vibe of of um of the community that's that's around at the Grove. Even though they they completely have their own space. But um yeah no like we you know it's constant constantly music playing and and um and you know I think that the the interest will come and you know it's um they they you know they're not pressured to uh to become you know virtuosos or anything follow the family business yeah exactly yeah um but you know my other passion um that I have that keeps me really happy when I get time is sailing so I have a have a ocean sailing yacht that um that I love to go out and to the ocean in by myself and get away from the world. I mean you think I'm you know whether it be in the studio or or with the family or in the in the in the office I'm constantly surrounded by by people um I guess as we all are but um yeah I find it um such a uh relaxing um and and amazing distraction from everything else that's going on. I mean when you're sailing in you know two metre swell in a 20 knot wind um you're not thinking about much else other than keeping the boat going forward. You'd still hear a beat every now and then though wouldn't you yeah you do but um you know it's a beautiful beautiful pastime that I try and try and do every now and then.

Jimmy 43:13

Yeah nice and um so where did where's the Grove heading? Like what's what's what's in the future for the Grove if you got anything coming up you can touch on you got any cool bands you're working with that everyone wants to hear about um man there's it feels feels like uh we've really come back properly after COVID.

Scott 43:32

I mean I know that feels like a a million years ago for some now um but the music industry, you know, as you as everywhere really got hit hard by by COVID and whether it be live music, recording um or just you know the youth r tr really engaging with with going out and playing and going to shows and nightlife and and and building that community. Um it feels like this year we've just had a real resurgence of of um people playing together and bands and recording together and and you know we went through um you know maybe more than five years of like a real hip hop focus where you know the studio was still very really busy but not not with bands coming in and utilizing the space and playing against each other and and and fully immersing themselves in in in the space for what it was designed for, which is you know, isolation booths and big drums and all that stuff. So lots of really great bands coming through. Um yeah, recently, like we've had the um Father's Favourite and Liquid Zoo and Pash um come through, which were all like really cool young bands out of Sydney and Adelaide. Um yeah, and and you know making great music with Birds of Tokyo and um Adam and Brooke, great country record, and Tory Forsythe. Um just lots of different genres and lots of lots of um great music. Studio 2's had a lot of local awesome music coming through. Um so yeah, in terms of bands and music, yeah, we're we're we're super super super busy. I think we've we're building a um uh a a big outdoor uh venue on the on on the space in the space, so big, big shed that I'm really excited about.

Owen 45:36

And if you work for the council and you're listening, the shed's always been there. It's just been extended, yeah.

Scott 45:40

That's I've seen it.

Owen 45:42

Renovated, yeah.

Jimmy 45:43

Yeah, it was always there. So my mind it was always there. Um the ban. So you know, there's been talk over the last few years in you know, in in big circles that the band's dead. Is it? Is the band dead? I mean I you know you is there a resurgent of the band? Did it never go away? Or like what's what what's I I heard a um I heard a a little snippet of a conversation that one of the Gallagher boys from Oasis was having with some people, and he's he said the band died because the record industry killed it. No record execs want four blokes that are out on a Tuesday night getting pissed when they can have young men over here who will wear a dress for them. I mean, what's your take on that?

Scott 46:33

I've seen that clip.

Jimmy 46:35

I laughed, I thought it was good.

Scott 46:37

I I I think my my biggest thing is that no matter what is popular now, we'll change tomorrow. And uh um, yeah, I think as I said before, like we just we've just come through a really big stin of of hip-hop and and rap being being the focus. And I think you know, if you looked five years ago at the top 100 uh most played songs at that time, it was very hip-hop focused. I think country music has made a massive impact on on what the music that people are making. Um and for me that sort of brought back um you know, story the storytelling, the the the musicianship, the instrument playing, and and that um I guess more acoustic based recording. Um and you know, like in the even the the bands that I just mentioned that we've been working on, they're all you know 18 to 20 years old, really into band culture and and playing playing live. Like the the the playing live is their main focus, not um pretending they are and putting it on on Instagram. On Instagram, yeah.

Jimmy 47:54

I had a mate say to me not long ago, you know, um blah blah blah, the kids don't listen to any decent music these days. And uh, you know, I I want to correct him on that, but you're wrong because um I've been to a few gigs recently and these young kids, like I mean you can hear the influences and the influences of their parents, and it just so turns out that I'm probably around their parents' age these days. So I'm hearing you know, my the 90s just come back through these kids, and it's absolutely amazing because it's a new take on it too. Like you you know, you can hear those influences, whether it be you know a bit of Soundgarden Nirvana or Pearl Gem Metallica, you can hear it in there, but it's not ripped off, it's their it's their take on it, and they're bringing it back, and I absolutely love it, I have to say. Um, there's some just some great young bands out there at the moment that you can go and see your local pub guys get out there and listen to them, support them.

Scott 48:47

Yeah, it feels feels like that's coming back, and I think you know, you know, there needs to be more support and more um venues, venues, more support for venues, more support for for festivals, and you know um fingers crossed that that that turns around and and and we see um a resurgence in in you know the focus of on Australian music and Australian culture and people supporting um um local music because it's it's it's not in great shape. I mean people people are um I mean there's not really the outlets that there was traditionally for for Australian music and and a focus on Australian music. So um you know, I'm I f I feel that um we've definitely come through a really um tumultuous time for for Australian music and COVID has a big impact on that. So you know maybe the this resurgence of of of bands and and people um supporting each other and and you know mini cultures and and and that that kind of um start small and and and watch it grow um mentality will will have an impact.

Jimmy 50:12

Act local, think global, hey? Mm-hmm. Yep. No, that's cool. I mean there's a I mean there's a great number of Australian bands out at the moment. I I listen to a lot of Australian music and um one thing one thing I I've I've probably been hearing of a little bit recently is that that kind of folk country kind of vibe coming into the the rock world. Um you could say there's there's some there's I read it the other day there's a there was a genre named that's but not that I really care about genres because I think it's mostly a load of crap anyway because whatever but these these bands and they're just singing about life. It's not necessarily their story, but it is a story, and it's it's it's really in th it's like the Aussie culture, it's and it's not always great, you know what I mean? Like they talk about the dark side as well, which is um you know it's beautiful, you can't sugarcoat everything, I suppose, but it's just you know I'm I've I've I've I've been enjoying that personally myself as well, I could say. Yeah, um where are we going?

Owen 51:26

I have a yarn for you of Australian music that I think has I don't know, I haven't I haven't given uh a flying hoo-ha about triple J in many years. I don't know if it's because I'm getting old or it's getting bad, I don't know which one it is, maybe a bit of both. But I am thoroughly interested in and thoroughly enjoying the hottest 100 Australian songs of all time thing that they're doing at the moment. I started putting together my short list, which I haven't voted in a hottest 100 in in years. Yep. Um and I'm gonna vote in this one. And I started putting together my shortlist, and it's like 50 songs long. Like it is a I can only vote for 10 of them. Um have you guys got a got a one off the top of the dome that you reckon you can't you can't go without an Australian song of all time?

Jimmy 52:16

I've got a one. Yeah, what's your one? Flame Trees. Huge, huge. It's probably one of my favourite songs of all time. Hands down, wasn't growing up, and it probably wasn't until I saw Ian Moss perform it on his own, and it blew my it became my favourite song instantly, um, instantly just by watching his performance of it. Sick. Um and yeah, it m it meant more for it means like I actually to be honest, didn't I played it before I came here to G me up? Nice, yeah, because I played it like I'd you know didn't listen to it, I played it like I'd yeah, it's and it's not even a Got about death, but for what yeah, it just yeah, it moves me. Nice, Scott.

Scott 53:18

Um it's hard for me to narrow it down, but the one that came to mind when we were talking about of all time was um Renee Gay's say I love you. Do you do you guys know that song?

Jimmy 53:33

I I I off the top of my head, no. How does it go?

Owen 53:37

Arcabella, karaoke, go.

Scott 54:20

There's something just tropical and fruity about the production that I remember the first time I heard the song you know later, later when I was involved in music production, and just it blew my mind, and I just fell truly in love with the song just because of the feeling that it it it gives you. Um so yeah, might be a bit left field, but yeah, Renee Gaya's say I love you, um, is my hope it comes in at number 99.

Owen 54:51

Just really scrapes in there.

Jimmy 54:53

There's enough Renee Gay fans out there over the line. What about you, Arn? You brought it up.

Owen 54:57

I had I've got two that in my short list I know are gonna make it so far. One is Tina Arena's Chains, because that's just one of the greatest songs ever, in my opinion. I think it's probably the only ever acceptable use of a key change as well. Um and the other is Never Tear Us Apart, because I just also think that that's an incredible song. I remember I have two weird memories of that song. One is sitting in the backseat of my parents' car singing along to it when I was a kid, and I just remember me and my dad belting it out, and I would have been like 10, and my mum just being like, you two uh two idiot peas in a pod, uh, which I remember and I love, and the other one happened like a year ago, and obviously the Grove was built by Gary Gary Beers, the bassist from In Excess, and I was on a session with um my production partner Tom, and we both just were like needed a break, so walked out of Studio One and like MTV was on the telly, and Never Tear Us Apart had like just started, and we both just stood there and it had the whole extended intro bit as well. That's so it was like the five-minute video clip, and we both just stood there like staring like zombies at the TV, and then it finished, and we both just went, Fuck yeah, it was the best, like little reset ever, and it was just so cool sitting standing in this studio and listening to that. I was like, This is the best.

Jimmy 56:24

I'll do a very good air sacks when I'm drunk. Oh, 100%.

Owen 56:28

Air sacks, air guitar, it's got it all, air vocals, it's yeah, it's the dream.

Scott 56:33

Amazing. We could um sit here all night and talk about great Australian songs.

Jimmy 56:39

We could, we could.

Owen 56:39

Yeah, I think that's the nice thing about like that happening because I feel like it's obviously it's there's gonna be so many never tear us apart, ACDCs, all the like lots of legacy stuff that that gets into that countdown, but I'm I hope that it has a knock on reinvigoration um of people listening to Oz music. Because I think you told me a crazy stat the other day, Scott, that it's like an abysmal percentage of the Yeah, it's under 10%.

Scott 57:07

Yeah, under 10% of of people Australians are listening to under 10% of um Australian music in there which is um you know you can understand. I mean the world is so diverse where you can see. Like Will we see another legacy band? Yeah, I definitely think so. I I um you know, I think I mean you look at um you know, and uh when talking about favourite Australian songs of all time, one of mine is Walking on a Dream from Empire of the Sun. Um and you know, they're just continuing to grow and and you know play bigger shows around the world um than they ever have. And and um you know, continuing to release music, Luke and Nick Littlemore. Um, you know, definitely. I mean they're well that's um they've been around for a while now, but I still feel like you know their growth is still continuing and and and new.

Jimmy 58:13

He's a bike that likes to experiment with music as well, doesn't he? Luke Steele. Yeah, yeah.

Scott 58:17

Yeah, both and and Nick Littlemore, they're great, great collaborators and um incredible songwriters and and producers themselves.

Jimmy 58:27

I was actually blown away by his album with Daniel. Um was it Dreams they brought out that album? That was that was uh That's an experiment. Yeah, that was an experiment. I was disappointed they didn't call it Steely Dan, but anyway.

Owen 58:40

That's so shit. That's incredible.

Scott 58:44

Well originally it was actually called Hathaway and Palmer, and um we made a record in Daniel's house um must have been 2009 or maybe 2010, around that time. Um Luke and Dan and I um bunkered down in Dan's house in Newcastle for a couple of months and uh set up a studio in Daniel's little lounge room and kitchen and um and uh yeah mate as Julian Hamilton from the presets came up and played piano, but yeah, we had a a a whole album that has never seen the light of day. Well it um what a shame. Yeah, I mean we've I've I've still got it. I've it's in in my iTunes and um I was talking to Dan about it, but there's some beautiful songs very different to what Dreams was. This is like acoustic um them singing together and singing harmonies and sort of very sort of Beatles Bowie and Beach Boys inspired um songs and um but super fruity and incredible incredible vocals from from them both. Um hopefully one day they release it.

Jimmy 1:00:04

Do you still um do you still feel that awe? Like like what am I doing here? Do you still get it?

Scott 1:00:12

When? What do you mean?

Jimmy 1:00:13

Like when you're recording with people, when you're like when you're in there and you you you know you you hear it. Do you do you like do you hear a hit and then think I'm lucky to be a part of this, or do you not know until later?

Scott 1:00:32

Like how like you know about yeah I mean you know, I think you um you you feel um I mean you feel excited when when a when a great song's coming together and all of the the pieces uh are working and you're you know you're creating um I mean it comes I guess it comes back down to to the song. I mean there's so many songs and you know, as a songwriter I mean even the great songwriters, you know, m maybe one song out of a thousand songs hits the hits some form of magic. And it's the same with you know, then taking that song and and producing it up, it's uh it's um you know, you f you f you feel it here heading in the right direction, and yeah, you you um maybe more so when it's done and you're listening back, do you finally get to feel the whole picture? You're so deeply immersed in in the creation of it. Um but you know, no, you you feel the energy in the studio when something's moving in the right direction and and feeling great. Um you you also feel that from from the demo of of a song when that one song um comes out of nowhere and you know it's that great tasting peanut butter sandwich amongst the thousands of peanut butter sandwiches you've eaten.

Jimmy 1:02:09

Maybe you're just really hungry.

Scott 1:02:11

Yeah, just like peanut butter sandwiches.

Jimmy 1:02:14

And so that that whole that that whole process, like I mean, growing up we all listen to albums, right? And I you know, I know I still personally do listen to album. I love listening to a whole album from start to finish, but I know not not everybody does, not everybody takes in the album like they used to. The the thought process about when you have all these songs there and then you lay them out, like who decides what song goes first? Like, is did like is that a production, is that a producer's job, or is that is that the band really push that? Like it's gonna be another people.

Scott 1:02:50

I think um, yeah, I mean um yeah, I mean I I've always got involved in yeah, what a the track listing of how an album rolls, yeah. Like, yeah, definitely whether it be from an AR capacity, you know, working for in in in a record company capacity, or whether it be as a producer or the you know, usually when I'm mixing is when I um start to think about you know how the songs can flow and and um you know where where they fit well in that journey um uh of of of an album. Um I always sort of found that they sort of find their own spot. Sort of have that maybe it's bullshit, but I sort of have this feeling that they sort of find their find their way into where they sit on the record, whether it be up the front, because they're feel they're feeling inviting and opening and you know, exciting feeling that you're heading into this this space or or that if you know they're they're bringing you down into, you know, just after the middle of the record, or you know, they they sort of have their own character that that supports where they sit on an album. Um yeah, I mean I I I think the artist themselves also feels that and and I mean some artists don't, some artists really get um so deep into it they don't f don't don't f feel where that that journey comes. It's kind of like picking your favourite child uh in a way. But um yeah, yeah. Um for for me, I'd always feel that there's a character of where they sit in that in that journey.

Jimmy 1:04:37

Do you have a favorite child? No, no, come on, the favourite dogs, so um no right, no favorite childs, that's cool, but um give me a memory, like a memory when you're you sit in there, you're you're looking around, you're like, this is pretty fucking cool. Like, this is my life, right?

Scott 1:05:02

Um every day. I mean, I just I finished time is it now? It's 10. So you know I've been in uh in the studio all day with a great artist developing a a song, and great producer Andy Mack came in today to to play um sort of this um sort of atmospheric Rhodes Um piano that we put through a Leslie and then sent um sent into the plate reverb that we have up in Studio One and just the sounds that we pulled that really made this song leap and go into this beautiful space. I mean, that was just a really great moment. And those those sort of moments happen every day where you're you're searching for a sound and and a performance and and a tone that that brings a song to life. Um and um, you know, experiencing an incredible Player, producer, like Andy. Um you know, they're sp special, it's it's special moments. And it's something that we we do all the time, but it doesn't get old.

Jimmy 1:06:12

So um, this one's a bit left field, but every time I hear a Rick Rubin story, right? It's always like, oh, we couldn't think of lyrics, so we we made some dice with some fucking words on them and got the street kids to throw them around until we came up with the lyrics for the album. Like, what how do you how do you drag how do you find how do you find a way to drag something out of someone when it's not there? Like when they're really struggling to whether you know to to find that hook or to find that that lyric that they need.

Scott 1:06:47

It's always different, you know, like you find patterns in how to inspire or or or or you know make suggestions um yourself and and um but dip different artists, there's different codes and different ways. Some people it's like you know, I'll encourage them to go for a walk and go and you know, get a walk you can you can kind of get locked, gridlocked sometimes when you're um trying to write. Some people it just flows out of them. Um and and it's about picking the the right journey out of a huge array of lyrics. Um you know, always blown away by um by people who are focused on lyrics and are really good at develop developing lyrics. Um I mean just you know, we mentioned him before but Nick Littlemore from from Empire of the Sun, like it just always um blows me away at his just the ability for and I I guess it's a practice of his that he's constantly writing and and so on. So there's a catalogue of stuff for him to draw on. Um but yeah, ever every artist is is really different. Um I think um you know, being around uh an artist when you're working on an album, um, you know, writing an album and and and going through that the production of an album when the lyrics aren't set and you can see them just being completely open and aware to whatever's being said around them and catching someone saying something and taking a note of that and then that making it into the song so they're drawing in from what's happening around them and and bringing that into the song. Um I I I I really enjoy that and then listening back, you can remember when what that was drawn from and that experience and and how it made it into the song. Um I mean some some bands sort of really collaborate as as a group to to get lyrics together. Uh um other times it's you know a very personal personal yeah, personal story. Um different types of songs sort of demand a different style of writing. Um but um you know, it's about finding and co-creating an environment where people feel really open and and um I guess really safe to to say and and allow that um those ideas to flow and that every idea is a great idea and and that you know um pushing for something better um is not a a negative but it's it's it's it's just searching for for for something that's uh really works and is really um immersive or really intriguing. Um and um Yeah. But uh I think that the the big thing is is that it's it's there's not um there's not sort of one algorithm to to getting it right. It's um it's uh different for everyone.

Jimmy 1:10:05

So I I suppose I would like to uh um to to wrap it up today. And I'm I'm I'd like to wrap up pretty much every podcast with the same question. So um now we've we've had a chat um I want you to play me a song. It can it can be anything, it doesn't have to be have to do with anything we've spoken about today. Um But I want you to play me a song that A we can we can listen to as as the podcast goes out and and and be something for me to to listen to, to take away from from our conversation today.

Scott 1:10:47

So I was working with this young, incredible young band, um and uh you know super young and and we were playing the bounces back, the rough bounces of our writing session that we did together. And then they wanted to play me other demos um that they had written and but we were going back and forth and I was playing something that I'd produced over the years and then they were playing me a demo and they were um you know asking what what you know the favourite albums that I'd been involved with and blah blah blah and we were playing a song from that and one of the guys, the singer in the band Jet he uh um played Thieving Birds by Silverchair um off the Young Modern album, which um I was like a a young um production assistant on on that record. Nick Lawnay was the main producer and Daniel and Paul Mack and Van Dyke Parks and and um um Ben and Chris in the band. Like it was um an incredible sort of two years, maybe three years of my life where where um you know we we did um lots of demos for the record and then made the record and recorded the strings and orchestras with the Van Dyke Parks in Prague and made the record in LA and it was all the demos were done here in Sydney. So it was this huge sort of part of my life and I played the the song Thieving Birds which just brought back so many memories and when we played it that night in the studio like super loud, it was just like the most incredible song structure and the journey um and the lyrical content. I just absolutely love. It's super experimental and um the and Daniel's with the vocal and Van Dyke. And and Van Dyke Park's string arrangement and Paul's keys and Ben's drumming. Um it's it's just an incredible production, but it's just an incredible song that um you know I just yeah not only listen to that night, but the next day I listened to it again and just again fell absolutely back in love with with the song for for so many reasons. Um so yeah, I'd love to play that one. So what's it's Thieving Birds Part One, strange behaviour, those Thieving Birds Part Two is the title of the song on Spotify.

Jimmy 1:13:32

I encourage everyone to put it on. You want to have a listen? I'll stick it on at the end. Yeah, cool. I'll stick it on at the end. For sure. So Scott, thanks. Thank you. Thanks for not only being on my podcast, but thanks for letting me have my podcast up here at the Go Studios.

Scott 1:13:51

Absolutely. I look forward to seeing where your podcast goes. I think it's a great idea, and I think um, you know, you're gonna draw in lots of interesting information with with um the way that you you ask questions and are intrigued by what people do.

Jimmy 1:14:06

Look, I just think this is just such an amazing place to do it, you know, with the with the studios you have here with the academy, with the you know, the bands that are passing through here, the people that come through here. I mean, we hardly even have to leave here to to talk to anyone, you know. But in saying that too, there's so many people on not only the central coast but all over the place that that I'm sure we can have some great conversations with. Yeah, hopefully over the years.

Scott 1:14:30

Absolutely.

Jimmy 1:14:31

Um I suppose a lot of it comes down to the listener. You guys need to get on board and you know, help share the podcast, get it out to to everyone. Um you can go to whatever streaming service you listen to and give us a little like and a share and and pass it on, leave a review, and and be back, please. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

Silverchair 1:20:18

If the truth hadn't come Jesus, no more goods, no more big lies, if the truth had free just as long as we'd together I'll hold on to the jewelry like staple stretch, clench fist and songs.